Welcome to this week's episode of Masters of Max with host Tom Butta. Today, Tom is joined by John Gregory, a seasoned professional with a diverse background spanning retail, media, and digital. John has worked with renowned brands like Macy's, Bloomingdale's, AOL, Pandora, and Spotify.
Welcome to this week's episode of Masters of Max with host Tom Butta. Today, Tom is joined by John Gregory, a seasoned professional with a diverse background spanning retail, media, and digital. John has worked with renowned brands like Macy's, Bloomingdale's, AOL, Pandora, and Spotify.
Throughout the conversation, John emphasizes the importance of brand continuity and delivering a remarkable and consistent customer experience across all touchpoints. He highlights the value of personalization and leveraging listener data in mobile app experiences to create engaging and relevant interactions. John also discusses the significance of balancing performance-oriented marketing with brand marketing to attract new audiences.
He advises companies to focus on innovation, experimentation, and staying flexible in the ever-changing digital landscape. Overall, this interview provides universal insights and advice for any brand seeking to improve their mobile engagement and app offerings. John's extensive experience makes this interview a must-listen for any company looking to navigate the ever-changing digital landscape.
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Guest Bio
John Gregory joined Spotify in April 2020 as Global Retail Category Development Officer to lead the retail vertical that supports efforts with key strategic partners in this industry sector. His role advocates Spotify’s platform capabilities to the retail industry, collaborating with internal teams to ensure the best solutions for retail clients are in development and also advising the selling organization on how best to address the needs of all sub-categories within the industry.
Earlier in his career, John was VP-Retail Head of Industry at Pandora, Retail Category Development Officer at AOL, and Group VP of National Marketing Strategy and Campaign Planning for Macy’s Inc.
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Guest Quote
"It all comes down to having a continuity between all the expressions of your brand, whether it be a mobile app or in store or even the advertising you may see throughout your daily life. There has to be a common thread of brand continuity to make it make the most sense and keep that experience with the consumer.” – John Gregory
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Time Stamps
*(01:16) John's Background
*(05:01) Proving the value of your users
*(08:08) Curating the experience for each unique consumer
*(10:16) Evolving your physical brand to the digital world
*(12:07) All about experience
*(16:59) Spotify’s “The Stage Experience”
*(19:24) Advice for digital native brands
*(22:34) Rapid Fire Questions
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Links
John Gregory: [00:00:00] It all comes down to having a continuity between all the expressions of your brand, whether it be a mobile app or in store or even the advertising you may see throughout your daily life. There has to be a common thread of brand continuity to make it make the most sense and keep that experience with the consumer.
It comes to the remarkable experience, the memorable experience, and the one that could be consistently delivered on an ongoing basis.
Voiceover: Welcome to Masters of Max, a mobile app experience podcast. Please welcome your host, Tom Budda, chief strategy and marketing officer at Airship.
Tom Butta: Welcome to another episode of Masters of Max. Today I have the great pleasure of talking with John Gregory. John, you have had a career that's filled with brand names. I think that Every one of our listeners certainly, you know, would know of, I mean, [00:01:00] from, well, retail brands like Macy's and Bloomingdale's to, uh, you know, one of the very first internet brands, uh, AOL, and most recently with Pandora and Spotify.
Tell us a little bit about your career and how you've navigated
John Gregory: all of that. Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity. As far as my career goes, you know, I have had many Um, twists and turns, you know, transitioning from the client side of retail to media agencies to digital media platforms, as you described.
The interesting thing is that, you know, in retrospect, it's, it's that diversity that's what's given me the unique perspective really on the retail industry. Marketing strategy and even organizational development. And what gets me excited is really the degree of change and new experiences that, uh, each of those jobs and roles has, has allowed me.
So it's been an ongoing education, so to speak, and I feel very lucky to have had it. [00:02:00] I started my career in, in, uh, retail, the department stores and specialty fashion, luxury retail, and then moved into the agency side of the world where I worked on the leadership team managing the Walmart account, which was quite an experience.
And then from there, I moved on to uh, the three digital platforms you mentioned, AOL, Pandora, and Spotify. Acting as more of a retail specialist than anything, uh, but working with the sales teams to build a successful ad business. Interesting.
Tom Butta: Yeah. So it's an interesting role right inside of a big media platform, you know, like a, like a Spotify or, or Pandora to, to have this sort of specialization of a certain industry or series of industry sectors.
So what does that role encompass? You said you work with the sales team. What does that role encompass?
John Gregory: I could split it up into three main areas of focus. One would be, uh, working with the internal teams to make sure that they're speaking the language of retail. And that wasn't necessarily the case when I joined the last three, uh, digital companies I worked for.
The seller is [00:03:00] sold to everyone, all clients. And for that reason, there wasn't the degree of specificity that might be required to be more relevant with those clients. So first and foremost, my job was to work with the selling teams to make sure they understood not only the retail industry, the language that's used, the organizational structures, but also the differences between Uh, the subcategories, you know, what you would propose to a, a department store is much different than you might suggest to a grocery store chain or a fashion retailer.
So it's, it's very important to understand the dynamics of the business and bring credibility in doing that. The other thing that, uh, was very important was being the voice of Spotify. with the industry at large. So I spoke quite a bit at industry conferences and panel discussions across the globe, uh, really bring into life what Spotify does in support of the retail industry.
And thirdly is really product development, working with the internal teams at Spotify to make sure that we're creating the right products that are most relevant. [00:04:00] to the industry and whether that's taking a product off the shelf and tweaking it in ways that is more relevant or creating something completely new.
Uh, I would say that was also a very important part of the puzzle, not only for myself, but for the other category development officers that represented other industries as well.
Tom Butta: So, was this a new position at Spotify? It was.
John Gregory: Actually, the last three roles I've had, it was a new position. Uh, and being created for that, the reasons that I just, uh, explained.
Helping to bring some point of differentiation, the sales approach, the go to market approach for each of these companies. And, and it's successfully done, I must admit, and while my, my role at Spotify came to an end this last December, I look at it as a mission complete. I mean, we were all in place for about four years and educating the teams to do what we were asked to do, and we grew the business substantially, uh, on a global level over the last four years.
So I look at my. Past 10 years, very proudly and, uh, very happy with [00:05:00] what we've done.
Tom Butta: That's great. So, so maybe just for the, for our listeners, just trying to put the pieces together here, these media platforms are essentially driven by subscriber revenue. Right. But the other form of revenue, of course, is advertising or sponsorship revenue.
And so it's in that area, right? That you're working with the market in this case, this, the retail market, QSR market, maybe tribal market to help them understand the value of. The subscribers, right? And your listeners and why it's important for them to, you know, have a presence within the platform, right?
Right, right, right, right, right, right. So that leads me to understanding perhaps a little bit about, I mean, I would imagine that the vast volume of information or data, if you will, that you have about the subscribers, the users, the listeners. How do you leverage that, especially in terms of, like, showing, you know, uh, potential advertisers, uh, in [00:06:00] these industries that these are really valuable, you know, consumers?
John Gregory: Yeah, it's, it's really interesting how it all has evolved. You know, consumers come to these platforms to consume audio content, whether it be audiobooks or music or podcast content. And as a result, there's an incredible amount of listener data that's collected along the way with each listening session.
When listeners tune in, how long, what device they may be on, location, whether it be mobile or home, or even at work, depending on the triangulation of of signals and even the type of content that might shed light on the moods and the mindset of the listeners. So there's a lot that can be collected to use and to better inform marketing strategies and the approach to consumers in the marketplace.
And when you think about the cross reference of music listening with audiobook listening or podcast listening, that adds another layer of context to each individual. and their experience on the platform. So that [00:07:00] can really help bring a lot of different messages to life in different ways, different moments that are most relevant in the moment to those listeners.
Tom Butta: How much of the business is actually consumed? How much of the consumption of all of this great Digital content is consumed through the app.
John Gregory: The majority, yeah, I mean, the app is very important to Spotify and constantly being tweaked and updated and refined to bring the best experience to the listener.
Because when you think of audio, it's very, very portable. And which means that the mobile device is with the listener all the time. Whether it be, you know, Spotify. Pandora, iHeart, whoever it might be. And that's much different than other apps that are more visual in nature, where you're not necessarily, you know, watching a video on YouTube as you're walking down the street, but the earbuds can always be present and a part of your everyday life.
So it's very important. That the mobile app be the best possible experience that [00:08:00] can be offered to the listener to keep them coming back, keep them happy with additional content and, uh, uh, the best listening experience possible. Have
Tom Butta: you been a part of understanding how to continuously engage that audience so that you're not just observing their behavior?
But you're actually asking their opinions of certain things. I don't know whether it's introducing new types of content or the types of things that they specifically, individually are interested in. Right. Because you have this direct relationship. Right. We're authenticated, we, I say we, 'cause we all, almost all of us anyway, have seem to have Spotify or Pandora and you know who we are and you, you know, we tell you many things.
You know, we just did this survey of 11, 000 mobile consumers and like, we people are willing to share a lot of information in exchange for a more personalized, relevant, call it valuable, you know, experience. So is that something that's part of the, [00:09:00] is this part of the DNA of, of, yeah.
John Gregory: I think that's the foundation of, of what these digital platforms bring to life, that every.
Experience, every interaction, is another tip on what, you know, makes that consumer happy, whether it be music or time of day they're listening, and all that information is collected, and then the next time they return, it makes a much more personalized experience based on their They're past listening, but also it gives us clues to serve up what might be of interest, the content that they aren't currently listening to.
So it opens up a whole new type of experience.
Tom Butta: Recommendation engines, things like that. Yeah,
John Gregory: exactly. Exactly. So it's not only, uh, important to monitor, uh, existing behavior and, and most recent past experience, but to use that as a. Propulsion really to the next level of experience for things that they might not have been exposed to in the past or even might have had interest in.
Yeah. And
Tom Butta: so this is, I think when you talked about it, you also have influence over, [00:10:00] you know, potentially the product roadmap, right? In terms of the kinds of features, call it features or benefits or add ons or what have you, that you might suggest based on the data that you're calling. You know, for the sector, uh, which, which I would expect to be an important sector, you know, of client for Spotify, if I were to just sort of go up, uh, you know, a pretty high, significant level here and think about, wow, you work for these, call them iconic fashion retail brands, right?
Very much physical store, like physical destination, low, you know, oriented, all of whom have made a move to both. The internet, you know, and the app versus these digital native companies, right? And AOL, but especially Pandora and Spotify. I mean, some businesses trying to remain relevant in a new, you know, mobile centric, digital centric world.
Other businesses were founded in it. You know, what lessons might you share, uh, or you've, you've seen, you know, if you were [00:11:00] to go back and like inform your prior self at those, at those retail brands. There's, I think it applies to a lot of businesses. Like it's not, not every business started out as an app first or mobile first, you know, business, right?
So they're trying to evolve and quote, unquote, digitally transform.
John Gregory: Yeah. I think, well, as you've seen the last, you know, four or five years that you never know what's. What's around the corner. So it's very important to be flexible, to be able to innovate and move forward with the next best thing. But as it relates to your business itself, I think a lot of brands get lost in the need to innovate or show something new or do something different.
And in the process, it becomes a gimmick. And much less about the brand and how that innovation relates to the brand and the experience with the consumer. So it's a balance of owning and maintaining your brand in the marketplace, but also bringing that experience to life in new ways as innovation and technology changes.
I mean, artificial intelligence is the next big thing that we'll see how that plays out [00:12:00] in retail experiences, both, I mean, even in store, but most definitely in the digital landscape.
Tom Butta: So you mentioned the word experience. To me, that's like everything. You know, I think Maya Angelou said, you know, people won't remember what you said.
They won't remember, you know, what you did. They're going to remember how you made them feel. And to me, that's all about an experience. How does, how does an individual feel as a consumer, as a subscriber, you know, feel about the experience that they just went through? And you know, we all, I think, are shaped by our last great experience, regardless of where it came from.
Right? And our expectations are, well, of course, everything should work that way. You know, I, I think, again, here in that survey we did, the reason people like to work within their apps or use their apps so much is because it saves them time, it's easy to use, and it ultimately simplifies their [00:13:00] life. You know, so, experience matters.
Experience defines the brand, and, so, the reason I'm Positioning that is, I'm wondering how much of a focus there is, you know, say in, in your recent experience on experience.
John Gregory: It's incredibly important. And, you know, conversely, having a, a bad experience can, can also scar you for life with that consumer. Um, you, you've remembered those moments as, as, as easily as the, the good experiences.
But I think it, it all comes down to having a continuity between all the expressions of your brand, whether it be a mobile app or in store, or even the advertising you may see throughout your daily life. There has to be a common thread of brand continuity to make it make the most sense. Keep that experience with the consumer.
Um, of course, great product comes into play and making sure that the service that goes along with what you're selling is, is top notch. Uh, and that can mean many different things to different, different consumers, different retailers. Some, it might be the lowest possible [00:14:00] price. That's what they offer and, and that's the expectation.
Others, it might be, you know, incredible face to face experience in the store with service and, uh, helping, uh, you know, consumer make selections. So you have to have a point of view. Make sure that you're living up to that point of view and differentiating yourself as much as possible from the perceived competitor.
But you know, it comes to the, the remarkable experience, the memorable experience, and the one that could be consistently delivered on an ongoing basis. So
Tom Butta: speaking of that consistency, there's obviously you're, you pointed out before a lot of people are having that experience through their mobile device.
Right, through the app, but there are a lot of people who still consume media and have relationships with brands through the website, right? I'm interested to understand how you all think about the duality of that experience. There's like the app, right, mobile app, there's the mobile web or just the desktop web, [00:15:00] right?
And oftentimes, you know, those experiences are not the same. How do you all think about that?
John Gregory: Well, you know, it's, uh, it's different levels of development, I guess. A web presentation is almost a necessity as a starting point. But it's also important as you develop your, you know, technology and your, uh, experience with the consumer that that mobile app is also delivered.
Otherwise, the experience can be very clunky. with your interaction with that brand, where you're being taken from one place to the next, and it takes time, there are delays, a lot of things that cause a disruption in the experience itself. It's less expensive, of course, to develop that web experience, but you don't get the same benefits from either a consumer or an advertiser standpoint to collect data, personalization, things that really help not only maintain that consumer and make the experience better, but helps bring them back for a return visit.
Tom Butta: Exactly. You sort of nailed a lot of the benefits of really the app world and the app consumer, which is, it is [00:16:00] personal, right? It is relevant. There's this, I don't know, there's this notion that it's, it's there in this tiny little place, you know, inside this tiny little device, and it has to be kind of highly curated and, and the experience has to be highly thought through.
And oftentimes because you're on the internet and you know, you're on the website and it's this big thing. And so you have all kinds of ways in which to interact with people. And often that experience is very different, right? As you point out. Uh, and the data, you know, it's, it's always very frustrating when you're sort of taken out of the app to do something and you wind up on a website and it's like, wait, where did you just
John Gregory: take me?
Yeah, what's happening to me? You've, you've taken me away from the content that I love. What, what, what's happening? And it's, it's, uh, What is happening? It's a disruption, right? And it's not the best experience. But it's something that, it's a starting point, especially for retail, that there's a lot of, Innovation and development still has to take place, but many of the successful retailers have developed a very robust mobile app and QSRs as well.
There's no doubt about that.
Tom Butta: So I did [00:17:00] notice that something in your background that you were a part of was something called the stage experience as part of product development. The stage experience. Do I have that right? Yes,
John Gregory: yes, and this speaks to both, you know, the necessity to create engaging experiences for your audience with a stickiness that keeps, you know, the user involved and engaged with your platform.
Tom Butta: Why the word stage? I'm just curious. Does that mean the stages of, I don't know? Experiences, or what are you referring to?
John Gregory: Well, for, for, uh, well, Spotify, and I think it really, it meant, it kind of relates to the idea of a presentation or a performance, you know, as it relates to music and, and the entertainment industry.
The stage is essentially a container where many things can be brought to a life in app. And that's, you know, very important to keep the listener within the app itself, but also bring something to life that's engaging and different. And the stage did just that. It was the kind of experience where a listener was invited in [00:18:00] to answer questions about their They're listening to behaviors or the moods they were in or the products they liked.
And as a result, they were delivered a personalized playlist that related to the music they listened to historically in their experience, but also is contextually relevant to the advertiser experience you're trying to bring to life. And as a part of that could also be a follow up of merchandise that related to the playlists that were delivered.
or the moods and moments that the listener chose as a part of that experience. So it was a means to bring a much more robust, you know, visual and listening experience to life in the mobile app itself. And it was only offered, it's still only offered on the mobile app. And part of that reason was to develop a much closer connection to the listener by delivering it.
as they were listening to their music on an ongoing basis throughout the day.
Tom Butta: Fascinating. Yeah, I love that concept. I'd like to think of it as a stage. It's a performance.
John Gregory: Well, hopefully every advertisement, [00:19:00] every communication with the consumer would be looked at as some type of performance that it has to be engaging, exciting, and something that connects with the end user.
So in this sense, we were allowed to bring something to life that wasn't only related to audio and music and content, but also The choices being made by the listener themselves as it relates to music and the content that the advertiser was
Tom Butta: presenting. Based on the experience that you've had with these digital native brands, brands that all of us are carrying around in our pocket and utilizing probably every day, multiple times every day, even, what advice would you have for companies today, um, either ones that are trying to digitally transform and become as relevant as possible to all of us so that We are one of those, you know, few apps that they turn to on a regular basis or companies that are starting out even.
And trying to be the next gen,
John Gregory: right? I mean, it's it's a it's a difficult business environment, even though the [00:20:00] economy is doing really well There is a lot of concern about pocketbooks and what people are doing and what they are buying Uh, and for that reason, I think many advertisers almost become too prescriptive in their targeting and messaging approach to consumers.
And while focusing on the here and now to drive, you know, immediate conversion and transactions is incredibly important in a very competitive marketplace, it's also important to focus on brand marketing as a key component to ensure audiences are, new audiences are being brought into the fold. And the balance between the two isn't easily achieved, but it's something that needs to be considered.
And before COVID, I believe there was a move toward increased brand marketing and a lot of retailers, especially, were trying to create differentiations for themselves and advertising that, messaging that. set them apart from other retailers, whether it be exclusives or special products, things that made them a specific destination.
Through COVID and the late, latest economic, you know, [00:21:00] turmoil, I think the move has been back to performance oriented marketing, things that are going to really drive sales of the moment. But we can't forget about that need to build serendipity for the consumer. That, you know, part of what They need to illustrate as things that the consumer doesn't necessarily know they need it, you know, have to bring new things to life on a continual basis to bring new consumers into the fold.
So unless you're doing that in some way with your either creative or targeting modeling that allows you to reach new audiences that you may have never considered in the past, I think you're, you're missing something in the equation. How much
Tom Butta: experimentation do you
John Gregory: do? Quite a bit. I mean, there, you know, I think that's something that's a very important part of the experience, especially for digital platforms, that you can test things in small markets and see how they perform.
And if they do well, you can push them out into the broad market as quickly as possible. But you The important thing is the continued testing, whether it be content itself or ad experiences. It's important to [00:22:00] continue evolving and innovating and bringing things to the customer experience that, uh, that might be something that could really appeal to a broad audience.
And that could be in the U. S. or abroad, for that matter, as a company like Spotify has the opportunity to test things in different markets. And determine if that receptivity is something that could be expanded across into other markets as well.
Tom Butta: Cool. Well, this has been fascinating. Whoever you choose to go to work for next will obviously gain a lot of benefit from all of your years of experience and knowledge.
So I wish you luck there. We're now at the end of the podcast, and this is where we have this rapid fire questions. So I'm going to get started. You ready? Sure, let's go. Okay, alright.
John Gregory: Android or iPhone? Oh, iPhone, without any question at all. I am a total Apple advocate.
Tom Butta: Oh, okay. What app can't you live without?
John Gregory: Well, um, considering that I start every day with my coffee order and Wordle, [00:23:00] I guess it would have to be Starbucks and the New York Times. I use those apps. Consistently. I mean, like, as I said, I start every morning with them, so they're part of my life. Yeah,
Tom Butta: that's cool. Is there any trends you're, you know, maybe, you know, within your, the app world or mobile in general that you're, that you're seeing, uh, that you're, that you think are fascinating?
John Gregory: Well, I, I am really interested. It's not so much a trend as a new product. The, uh, Apple Vision Pro. I, I am very, very interested to see how that's going to pan out. I, I'm saving my nickels and dimes to afford one soon, but I'm, I'm looking at the experience, uh, you know, others are having with it to see how it might, uh, be beneficial, uh, in my everyday life.
But I think it's a, Very interesting idea, and knowing what we know about Apple, I, I doubt they would launch a new product without having a really good sense of confidence about where it's headed. So, I am very interested in seeing, uh, how that might turn out. So,
Tom Butta: we, we've just had our company kickoffs, uh, the last, last two weeks, and, [00:24:00] um, one, one of our innovators here has purchased one.
And I had the chance to experience it, and it's, it's actually
John Gregory: remarkable. So what, tell me what, what it's like, uh, do you have to be stationary to experience this? Or can you actually be, you know, walking around your room and, and, uh, you know. Yeah,
Tom Butta: you could, you could, you could be, you could be moving. It's an immersive experience, but it's not a, it's, it doesn't take you away from the environment that you're in.
Your eyes are controlling everything. Your eyes are basically right where you're looking is, is what it knows you're looking at. And then you literally touch your fingers together and you can do things just with that little, little touch. And it's, I'll just leave it at that. It's really great. Um, all right.
Favorite vacation spot.
John Gregory: It would have to be, uh, Florence, Italy is my Favorite place to go. I, I
Tom Butta: just, ah, Bella Italia.
John Gregory: Love the food, love the wine. It's just a beautiful city.
Tom Butta: All right. Last question, [00:25:00] which I think is a fascinating one. I believe this is true, but is it true that you were in the F 15 fighter program?
John Gregory: Wow, yes, this takes me back to my, actually, very first job in my career. I worked for McDonnell Douglas, which is now Boeing. Of course, it was acquired a while back, but I worked as a contract administrator, negotiator for the F 15 program with the Israeli, U. S., and Saudi governments. It was a really interesting experience.
What was most interesting was actually our offices were next to the plant. At a time when, during your lunch hour, you had a break, you could actually walk through the plant and watch F 15s being built, which, by God, could never happen now with all the security and the craziness in the world. But it was really interesting to, to watch mechanics put these things together.
It's just, it was incredible. And to see them being tested, that was also quite an experience. At the time, it was the only, uh, [00:26:00] fighter aircraft that could accelerate going. Straight up. It was like, it was incredible to see.
Tom Butta: Wow. Wow. Well, John, it's been very, very fun having you on the podcast and thank you for sharing your, uh, your experiences, your knowledge.
So I wish you a lot of luck and thank you again. Thanks
John Gregory: for having me. I really appreciate it. A lot of fun.
Voiceover: Thank you for listening to Masters of Max, a mobile app. Experience Podcast brought to you by the team at Airship. Find out more about how you can help your brand deliver better, more personalized app experiences at airship.
com. If you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to subscribe and rate the show.