In this episode of 'Tame the Mobile Beast,' Tom Butta hosts Chris Koehler, Chief Marketing Officer of Twilio, in a discussion about the intricacies of orchestrating seamless customer experiences across multiple channels.
In this episode of 'Tame the Mobile Beast,' Tom Butta hosts Chris Koehler, Chief Marketing Officer of Twilio, in a discussion about the intricacies of orchestrating seamless customer experiences across multiple channels.
Chris highlights the complex challenge brands face in integrating new technologies, evolving user needs, and vast data streams, emphasizing that creating cohesive and delightful customer journeys requires more than just advanced technology—it calls for strong internal alignment and a well-thought-out strategy. The conversation underscores the importance of viewing customer experience as a holistic journey rather than a series of isolated interactions, warning that disjointed experiences across touchpoints can undermine customer satisfaction and brand loyalty.
Additionally, the conversation would not be complete without touching on the potential of AI, specifically how it can be leveraged to enable personalization at scale. By leveraging a unified data profile and activating it across communication channels, AI can generate more relevant content, offers, and experiences. However, he cautions that success hinges on a deliberate strategy to avoid pitfalls like poor AI management, which could lead to negative customer experiences and increased skepticism.
Finally, Chris shares his insights on balancing the digital and human elements in customer interactions and the future impact of AI on marketing and customer experience strategies. His advice underscores the importance of creating value-driven and efficient customer journeys that are deeply rooted in rich, contextual data.
—
Guest Quote
"There's so many different ways to interact with your customers across your brand. Keeping that consistent, contextual experience - it's just really, really hard. And there's very few brands that are doing this.” – Chris Koehler
—
Time Stamps
01:01 Meet Chris Koehler, CMO of Twilio
01:35 Beast of the Week: Customer Journey Irchestration
02:45 The challenge of consistent customer experience
03:49 The role of technology and organizational challenges
09:53 The importance of data in customer experience
12:04 AI: The future of personalization at scale
20:16 Rapid Fire Questions
—
Links
[00:00:00] Chris Koehler: We're all pressured, right? Doesn't matter what industry, how do we drive growth? You know, how do we build a durable, profitable business? What ends up happening is, you're trying to drive velocity. Velocity of content, velocity of experiences, velocity of campaigns, whatever it is. And to some degree, we're not all taking a step back.
[00:00:22] You know, saying, okay, is this creating the right customer experience that if I was in their shoes, right, I would be happy and delighted and I would tell my friends about it. So I do think across the industry as technologists, as marketers, as others, we're probably contributing to this totally.
[00:00:42] Voiceover: Welcome to Tame the Mobile Beast.
[00:00:44] Everything you need to capture customer value. Here's your host, chief strategy and marketing officer at Airship, Tom Butta.
[00:00:58] Tom Butta: Welcome to Tame the Mobile Beast. I'm your host, Tom Butta. And today I am joined by Chris Koehler, the Chief Marketing Officer of Twilio. I'm sure everyone has heard about Twilio and maybe even Chris Koehler because he's got a legendary career in B2B SaaS businesses. But Twilio is the transformative cloud communications platform that empowers businesses to revolutionize customer engagement.
[00:01:22] Chris, welcome to the show. How are you today?
[00:01:24] Chris Koehler: I'm great, Tom. Thank you. And I think that was way too flattering of an intro for me, but, uh, I appreciate that nonetheless.
[00:01:31] Tom Butta: Well, I love the, I love the humility. It's all, it's all well deserved. Okay, so before we talk more about, well, you and, you know, your thoughts on things and Twilio, I want to kick off the conversation today with what we call our Beast of the Week.
[00:01:46] Now, for those of you that don't know, a beast is really a significant challenge. I would say it's one of those kind of hairy problems. These are all things that teams are challenged by, and the beast of the week this week is going to be around orchestration. And I don't mean concert orchestration, I mean like orchestrating customer journeys.
[00:02:09] So why are we talking about this beast of the week for customer orchestration or journey orchestration? Well, for many brands, it's been really difficult to keep up with new technology, new user needs, lots of new data. Let alone trying to tie together all of the ways in which they engage customers. So today's episode is about orchestrating your brand platform to meet the needs of your customers, wherever they are.
[00:02:37] Chris, does this make sense? Can you talk about this beast? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:02:42] Chris Koehler: Yeah, this is a, I mean, it's, it's such a relevant topic. As we think about it's incredibly hard for brands, like you said, to keep up with the technology of how do you orchestrate a great customer experience across channel and we talked to a lot of customers and, and one of the questions we always ask is.
[00:02:59] When is the last time you had a truly great experience, like digital experience, customer journey experience, that you were willing to tell your friends or family about and you ask that question and the answer is like, really doesn't happen that often. And I think, you know, again, it's, it's really hard for these, you know, as we've got more and more channels, as these brands are thinking about how do I facilitate this journey across the website, mobile.
[00:03:28] The call center, IVR, social, like it's, there's so many different ways to interact, you know, with your customers across your brand, keeping that consistent contextual experience. It's just really, really hard. It's a big technology challenge for all of us. And, you know, there's very few brands that are doing this well because it's hard.
[00:03:48] Tom Butta: Yeah. I mean, do you think actually technology is getting in the way? Uh, like there's so much of it.
[00:03:55] Chris Koehler: I mean, I think to some degree, if you don't have this as a core sort of capability that you're thinking about, it can get in the way. But it's not just technology too, it's also the internal component of it, of who's responsible for the customer experience across that journey.
[00:04:11] The reality is in most brands. It's not a single person. It's like multiple people. And so there's probably as much as a technology challenge as a people in an organizational
[00:04:21] Tom Butta: challenge as well. Yeah. Let's, let's actually talk about that. An organizational challenge. I mean, the organizations today are, are really set up in a way to create experts in very specialized areas, right?
[00:04:36] The question is those experts in those specialized areas call them digital channels. You know, are they actually talking to one another about, well, you know, you or me as the customer? What's your experience with that?
[00:04:51] Chris Koehler: I mean, again, if we put our own consumer hat on, we probably would say no, right? Because we see such disjointed experiences continuously where, Hey, I'm, I'm interacting and text messaging with a brand to when I get on the website, it's a totally different experience to when I get into the mobile app is another experience.
[00:05:10] And then when I call in. You know, with a challenge or I want to, you know, I want to actually talk to a human. Like there is no context of any of those experiences you've had. So if they were all working in together in concert together, you would assume that they would have thought and facilitated this, you know?
[00:05:28] So my take is probably not, but ultimately again, like who is responsible for facilitating that? Is it the chief marketing officer, the chief customer officer, the chief digital officer, the CEO? Who is ultimately at the organization thinking about that entire journey? I think marketing can play a big role there.
[00:05:47] But I don't know that all marketers sort of see that as their responsibility across that journey as well.
[00:05:53] Tom Butta: Is it your responsibility at Twilio?
[00:05:56] Chris Koehler: I am trying to spearhead this, although, you know, again, I'm six, seven months into the new role. And I think we've got a lot of work to do, you know, as well, as we start to think, how do I partner with You know, with our support channel, how do I partner with, you know, I, I own the website experience, but also the product experience and how we, you know, partner with a product organization, how do we partner with our sales organization to think through, you know, that journey as well.
[00:06:21] So is it my responsibility? Maybe by proxy, but ultimately I don't control, you know, all the resources or the technology to facilitate that and have to partner super closely, you know, with my peers as well.
[00:06:35] Tom Butta: Yeah, I had a really interesting conversation with Seth Matlin, who is the Managing Director for the Forbes CMO Network.
[00:06:43] And his point of view is the person in the organization who should ultimately own customer experience is the Chief Marketing Officer. But he said, in order to be effective at that, you not only need to have the responsibility, but you need to have the authority and you need to have the resources. You know, to do that, and you use the word, you need to have the control.
[00:07:06] And I think you're saying the same thing.
[00:07:08] Chris Koehler: Yeah. I mean, I think, and again, you can manage through influence, but ultimately at the end of the day, and I, and I don't know that you need full control, I think if you have incredible alignment, With the peers that you're all on the same page that you're working through, and you've clearly defined what is that journey that ultimately we want to go create for our customers.
[00:07:30] I think it can work in more of a distributed capacity, but then that you just have to work harder to make sure the alignment is there. Um, with your peers and you are, you know, ultimately wearing your customer's shoes.
[00:07:44] Tom Butta: So, so maybe just, let's just go back a little bit. So we opened up by saying that when you talk to your friends, nobody is really sharing these great experiences that they've had with brands.
[00:07:57] In fact, you're more likely to share bad experiences. And so, you know, we've both worked in, you know, in deep tech before and you're solving things that most lay people, you know, don't really get. Most common people don't really get because it's like underneath everything. But in this case we are the customer, right?
[00:08:17] Chris Koehler: Yeah.
[00:08:17] Tom Butta: And so it's kind of fascinating to me that we all experience in real life the challenge here. And yet in our work life, we're maybe, you know, not, you know, we're not focused as much on solving it. In fact, Maybe in our work life, we're contributing to the problem. I mean, would you say that that's an accurate statement?
[00:08:44] Chris Koehler: Uh, probably. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, um, because it's hard. And I think, you know, with the, as you sort of teed it up at the beginning with this proliferation of technology and channels, right? AI is going to make it even more interesting. That may help to facilitate that, but it also means you've got to be very deliberate around how you think through that.
[00:09:04] I think data is a massive unlock on that front. But again, you know, as we take a step back and we're all pressured right across, you know, doesn't matter what industry, how do we drive growth? You know, how do we build a durable, profitable business? What ends up happening is you're trying to drive velocity, right?
[00:09:23] Velocity of content, velocity of experiences, velocity of. You know, campaigns, whatever it is. And to some degree, we're not all taking a step back, you know, saying, okay, is this creating the right customer experience that if I was in their shoes, right, I would be facilitated. I would be like happy and delighted.
[00:09:44] And, and I would tell my friends about it. So I do think across the industry, as technologists, as marketers, as others, we're probably contributing to this. Totally.
[00:09:53] Tom Butta: Well, I know, I know how important data is at Twilio. You've got a terrific data platform. What role does data play in maybe unlocking, you know, that cohesive, connected, unified experience for customers?
[00:10:10] Because to the degree, it seems that we have data that can help us, first of all, identify that it's actually me, right? And you know a bunch about me. And you're seeing these other data points about me, or people like me, from other, in other ways, or through other channels. Connecting that would seem to be, like, at the core of getting this right.
[00:10:34] What are your thoughts about that?
[00:10:35] Chris Koehler: Yeah. I mean, we've been talking about, you know, being data driven marketers for a very long time. And my legacy of being in this space for a long, for a long time as well. And we're not short for data, right? We're collecting more data on a daily basis than ever before.
[00:10:53] The challenge is it's siloed across so many different systems that we're, it's the contextual component that I think we're all struggling with, right? I mean, the advent of all of the, the massive data warehouses and the, you know, across whether that's Snowflake or Databricks or, you know, Redshift or BigQuery, like we have more data than we know what to do with.
[00:11:15] And I think ultimately where that comes down to is. How can I take all of that data, create what we, we think is incredibly important as a unified profile that has the identity wrapped around that as an individual. That's a whole nother thing. The notion of anonymous, um, and, uh, in tying that back into a user or human, being able to one, create that very rich profile that spans across all the interactions you've got across your channel, and then, uh, But then being able to activate that profile so that all of the, the channel orchestration components can take that rich data and do something about it.
[00:11:54] And I think that's where we really see the future of how do you take contextual data plus the communication channels to reach that individual. And we do think AI is going to help us unlock a lot of that, because again, We can't create enough content, enough experiences, and tie that all together, and we think that AI really can help us, you know, as a massive unlock.
[00:12:17] Tom Butta: Can you just talk a little bit more about, about that? Why do you think AI can be a massive unlock? Is it because it's leveraging the data in unique ways, or is it uncovering new data?
[00:12:30] Chris Koehler: Yeah, I mean, I think if we really think about as, you know, if I put my marketing hat on, like as marketers, we've been using AI for a long time around digital advertising and machine learning and lookalike models and all that.
[00:12:43] I think the generative component and the, the ability, given the right contextual data Right. That you need. And this is, this becomes a critically important as the AI models are only as good as the data that you feed them. Um, that's part of that. So, you know, that done poorly actually makes this a way worse problem around that.
[00:13:03] But I think this world, we've been, we've been joking around this notion of personalization. You know, I've been talking about personalization for 15, 20 years. And the reality is as marketers, the capacity that we have today is we create this notion of campaigns, whether they're trigger based, based on some action or time based, you know, as we work through that.
[00:13:25] And I think the way that, that AI is going to help us unlock is they're going to be able to create way more iterations. Of content, of offers, of experiences than a human can, but they need to be armed with the right data so that they're creating the right content, right experiences, right offers. And then it needs to be able to reach that individual across the channels, um, that they prefer.
[00:13:48] So that's the real unlock that I see is that it's going to allow us to do a lot of things we've been talking about and doing, and we've, we've sort of coined it personalization at scale, but we do think this new world will allow. You know, marketers and, and whether you're a marketer or a customer experience or whatever it is to create a better journey for ultimately our consumers.
[00:14:07] Tom Butta: So, first of all, I'm really glad that you brought up the personalization, uh, word. I am kind of fascinated at, you know, we must have personalized, you know, content. We must get personalization right. And to me, I mean, that's just so fundamental. It's like, yeah, I mean, yeah, but the way you talked about it here and actually adding this twist and weaving in AI, when you, when you talk about personalization at scale, I get that because it's easy to, to have a personalized experience when you go into the shop and, Grace welcomes you to the new location that you happen to have met in another location and knows your name.
[00:14:57] That's really cool. But like, how do you do that across multiple channels? And you do that at scale with, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of millions of customers. And Tom,
[00:15:08] Chris Koehler: it's like a great example
[00:15:09] Tom Butta: we
[00:15:10] Chris Koehler: use is you can, you know, let's, let's take the hoteling industry, right? We all stay in lots of hotels and the big brands have lots of data about us.
[00:15:21] And if you create and say, you spend some time at an individual hotel and you get to know some of the staff and others, and then all of a sudden they can create this like great personalized experience for you as someone staying. But does that translate to the next hotel you stay in and the next hotel and the next hotel?
[00:15:38] The reality is no. So we all have these examples of like. One, whether it's an in person personalized experience or one channel where we're like, wow, the website's targeting me with like the things that I want. I think Meta does this really well with a lot of their, their, they've, they've gotten super smart around their targeting engine around the different, you know, retail and ads.
[00:16:01] That's great, but does that translate into every other experience you have, um, as part of that? So we can, we can create these experiences in silos. But I think the challenge is how do you replicate that across multiple interactions? And that's, that's the part that's pretty exciting.
[00:16:17] Tom Butta: Yeah, I also liked how you talked about AI and that AI unlocks more and more and more interactions and as long as you're able to provide it with the right data, then it can help surface up multiple options on the right kind of content, which can create multiple options on the right kind of experience, which can be delivered through many options inside of the right channels.
[00:16:49] And it's being deployed at the right time in each of those cases. So that's, so this, you know, assistance, if you will. Of AI, I think can be really powerful, but as you, as you point out, it has to be managed, has to be managed well.
[00:17:06] Chris Koehler: I think it has to be managed and it has to be, you have to have a very deliberate strategy because I think if we get into a world where there's already some skepticism, I think of digital, you know, whether it's agents and, you know, obviously there's a massive, this, this has massive potential, but I think if we don't get it right early.
[00:17:28] You know, consumers are going to have these negative experiences where it's like, okay, anytime you've, you've called into, you know, a call center and the IVR, and it's like, can't recognize your voice and you get frustrated. And immediately you're like, agent, agent, zero, zero, zero. As part of that, you're going to get to that same world with the AI agents and chatbots and others in this new world, where it's not providing a great seamless experience and value to you.
[00:17:54] You're going to try to circumvent it. And talk back to your humans again. So I think that's the piece. There are, you know, obviously some people that are skeptical, but I think if it provides value, people would, will be happily engaged and like embrace this as a new capability, because I think they're going to get answers to their questions a heck of a lot faster, um, than maybe, you know, waiting for, you know, to talk to a human on, on that front.
[00:18:17] Tom Butta: Yeah. Fascinating. I really love how you talk about AI and when you, when you say you really need a deliberate strategy. I think there's a lot of experimentation going on right now, but it's risky, right? So, as you point out, like, it's so powerful that if you actually have the wrong intentions, it can create, you know, bad things.
[00:18:38] But, if you have a deliberate strategy, It can be deployed in, in really powerful ways. Yeah, totally. Totally. And, and I
[00:18:46] Chris Koehler: think, you know, one of the things too is how are we leveraging this internally, which is a big initiative for me going into next year is we want our customers to create these great experiences, but are we also, You know, leveraging AI to create great experiences, you know, for our own teams.
[00:19:04] And I think one of the big unlocks as we're working through thinking about the new capabilities and there's a massive change management component to this that I think brands really need to think about is, okay, this is a new way of working. Ultimately, we think it's going to be a better, more efficient way.
[00:19:22] But I really see this as a, as an opportunity for brands and marketers to do more and better work versus replace, because we all have way too many things that we would love to do if we had more time, money, and resources. Around that, we just can't. So how do we use AI and the capabilities that are available to us now as a force multiplier versus, you know, versus just an efficiency gain as we work through?
[00:19:50] Tom Butta: Well, I'm not surprised that you have a, I would call it an evolved point of view about, about all of this. And, and I agree. We can't just help guide our customers on what to do, but we actually have to be doing it, you know, ourselves. All right, Chris, this has been great. Thank you so much for your, um, really, um, intelligent take on all of this.
[00:20:11] Um, it's really wonderful to, to talk with you and I always enjoy when, when we have the chance to do so. We're going to move into the next session, the final session, uh, here are the podcasts, which is some rapid fire questions. Okay. You ready? Let's go. Okay. All right. What beast, right? Do you think needs to be tamed next?
[00:20:29] Chris Koehler: I think there's some recency bias, but I think what's the relationship with your agency or agencies? Um, and how in this new world, how do you partner with them given, you know, the new AI capabilities? I mean, you saw the news of, you know, the mega merger, uh, around the agency piece. Amazing. You know, what does that relationship look like in the future?
[00:20:49] How do you make it, um, make it productive for, you know, for both of us? Um, I think that's a pretty interesting topic that's going to, um, over the next couple of years, we're going to have to figure out what that looks like.
[00:21:00] Tom Butta: And they're going to have to figure it out too. Like, yeah, yes, for sure. Yeah, exactly.
[00:21:05] Which is why you see mergers because yeah, margins I think are super thin, um, for agencies. So scale is, it helps with that. Next question. Are there any, I don't know, cultural trends, um, you know, besides You know, the technology trends that you're, you're paying attention to that might affect your work or even just your, your interests.
[00:21:26] Chris Koehler: I think, um, the thing that I, that I think a lot about is how do we create, there's a lot of change around how people like the buying experience and how they do want to engage with brands. And I, and I think what's interesting is people are more and more gravitating towards, they want to engage digitally only.
[00:21:48] But supplement with a great customer experience when they talk to people. And I think that's the piece that continues obviously in a B2B context, right? How, how do we evolve, you know, our selling motion, uh, to make sure that we're partnering with our customers on that front and providing the most value.
[00:22:06] And then how can I partner with my sales team? The thing that I really wonder is what is the buying experience in this new AI world where it doesn't just become all noise. Uh, because we can create more content, more experiences, and throw more things at our potential buyers. But again, it goes back into how do we create a digital experience, but supplemented with employees and humans, right?
[00:22:33] To create and, and to create better relationships.
[00:22:36] Tom Butta: All right. Last question. What's your favorite thing to do when you're not working?
[00:22:40] Chris Koehler: Uh, uh, anyone that knows me, I am incredibly active, so it depends on the season. Uh, majority of the time I'm either hiking or I'm skiing or I'm golfing or I'm traveling. So, uh, I'm never, never very, uh, in the same place very
[00:22:55] Tom Butta: long.
[00:22:56] That's very cool. Um, so three out of the four I map to. The skiing part, I enjoy it, but I'm not, by no means an expert because I've never really done it. Spent much time on the slopes, but I enjoyed being out in the tennis court. Uh, is that what I would add? That would be my fourth.
[00:23:12] Chris Koehler: Now it's like, are you a pickleball, like pickleball or no pickleball?
[00:23:16] Is that, uh, as a tennis guy, is that, you know, what you're, what you're feeling on that one?
[00:23:19] Tom Butta: Yeah, I'm tennis. You know, cause I, you know, I used to play competitively and I, um, I finally got back into the game again. And so I just want to be focused on, you know, on that. Um, I love paddle. Um, uh, that, that's, that's really cool.
[00:23:33] Like you, you have make, you make use of the full court plus. The surrounding, you know, walls around you. I'm not like, not, not unlike squash. Um, so that anyway, it's pretty cool. Got it. Well, Chris, thank you very much. Been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for coming on Tame the Mobile Beast. I really enjoyed our conversation today, as I always do.
[00:23:52] So thank you.
[00:23:53] Chris Koehler: Awesome. Thanks for having me Tom. I appreciate it.
[00:23:57] Voiceover: Thank you for listening to Tame the Mobile Beast, brought to you by the team at Airship. Find out more about how you can help your brand deliver better, more personalized mobile experience at airship. com. If you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to subscribe and rate the show.