Welcome to this week's episode of Masters of Max, this time featuring an exciting conversation with Martin Granström, head of design for retail giant Sam's Club. With a 20+ years career in product design and UX, Martin's journey has taken him from implementing error handling systems for nuclear plants to leading design teams at Sony Mobile, and now to redefining the retail experience at Sam's Club.
Welcome to this week's episode of Masters of Max, this time featuring an exciting conversation with Martin Granström, head of design for retail giant Sam's Club. With a 20+ years career in product design and UX, Martin's journey has taken him from implementing error handling systems for nuclear plants to leading design teams at Sony Mobile, and now to redefining the retail experience at Sam's Club.
Offering a unique perception into the evolving world of physical and digital design, Martin discusses driving innovation through both cross functional teams and customer-focused problem solving. He emphasizes the importance of combining physical and digital design to create holistic experiences for customers where every element of interaction feels cohesive and intuitive.
Martin unveils 'Clubhouse', a design studio space that emphasizes physical prototyping and testing, allowing rapid implementation across all facets of the customer experience. Clubhouse not only brings innovation to life but democratises it by providing a tool and a space that belongs to everyone in Sam's Club, promoting innovation by functionally enhancing both linear and lateral thinking.
Towards the end of the interview, valuable insights are shared for businesses aiming to enhance their mobile engagement and app offerings. Martin suggests that instead of focusing efforts on fixed high-sales seasons, businesses should strive to meet customer needs throughout the year, making every interaction count. Having dedicated design teams in-house allows for greater control and continuous innovation, ultimately resulting in a better, personalised user experience.
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Guest Bio
Martin Granström is the Head of Product Design at Sam’s Club, one of the largest US retailers serving more than 47 million members through 597 clubs in the US and more than 200 internationally. Martin and his team oversee the complete end-to-end experience for members and associates, from the club’s back room to the member’s living room—and all the interactions in between.
Martin has been a design leader for over 15 years. During his tenure, he has created and led complex and multi-faceted experience strategy & design teams, driving innovation projects for the IoT, AI and appliances and working on mobile products that are available in 80 languages and more than 224 countries--making life connected for the consumer globally. He holds patents for a system that allows multiple mobile devices to control the music playback of a lead device and for receiving user input on a graphical user interface.
Throughout his career, Martin’s design philosophy has always been to deliver business benefits through customer engagement and delight. Simply put, it’s to ‘take it from business to buttons’.
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Guest Quote
"One of the things that we've seen and that has evolved over the years is that combination of physical and digital design. For retail, It's very relevant, just because as a customer, as a member, you do both. And why wouldn't we as experienced creators, think about both holistically?" – Martin Granström
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Time Stamps
*(01:10) Martin's Background
*(05:34) When Martin joined Sam's Club
*(07:34) Fostering designer engagement
*(09:22) "The Prototype a Month"
*(11:37) Combining physical and digital design
*(13:15) Reimagining Retail
*(16:39) What is "Clubhouse?"
*(21:20) How designing in a physical space informs digital experience
*(24:36) Diving into design systems
*(27:42) How have the holidays changed for retail?
*(30:03) Rapid Fire Questions
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Links
[00:00:00] Martin Granström: One of the things that has evolved is that combination of physical and digital design. We are doing more and more in that space and as a customer, as a member, you do both. Why wouldn't we as experienced creators Think about both holistically. It's not just about when you're at the club. It's not just about where the member desk is.
[00:00:26] Martin Granström: It is how you find it. It is how you interact with the member service associates as well as your app or your scan and go experiences within the club. And we have thousands of these examples obviously and Jens makes it so exciting to work on both the physical and the digital design.
[00:00:44] Voiceover: Welcome to Masters of Max, a mobile app experience podcast. Please welcome your host, Tom Buda, chief strategy and marketing officer at Airship.
[00:00:57] Tom Butta: Welcome to another episode of Masters of Max. Today, I have the extreme pleasure of welcoming Martin Granström, who is head of design for Sam's Club. Martin, thank you so much for being
[00:01:08] Martin Granström: with us. Thank you so much. It's all my pleasure.
[00:01:10] Tom Butta: Well, I think we can spend the entire time just simply talking about your career.
[00:01:15] Tom Butta: Perhaps you can summarize it for our listeners.
[00:01:18] Martin Granström: Yeah, absolutely. So, I've had the The luxury and the opportunity and the joy of working with product design or UX for 20 plus years now. In the beginning of my career, I was on the sort of agency contractor side. And as a designer, I think that's really useful just because you have the opportunity to work on so many different things.
[00:01:40] Martin Granström: Personally, I worked on error handling systems for nuclear plants, to promotional websites for mobile phones, to a configuration system for fridge manufacturing. So everything in it, as a designer, it's really, really useful to do that because you create the foundational understanding for how to solve problems in many different areas.
[00:02:03] Martin Granström: After my first phase as a designer on the agency side, I jumped over and worked for Sony Mobile, Sony Ericsson, for almost 10 years. And over there, I had the opportunity to work with mobile phones predominantly, but also other related consumer electronic areas. Over the span of almost 10 years, I helped lead design teams globally at Sony Mobile, where we went from feature phones to smartphones.
[00:02:29] Martin Granström: And I was lucky enough to be part of leading and helping the team that launched. Sony's first, uh, smartphones on Android, Xperia Mini was the product that, uh, we launched. It won a Red Dot Design Award, so we were and are still very proud of that, even if it's some time ago. At the tail end of my time with Sony Mobile, uh, I had the opportunity to move from Sweden to, uh, California in the U.
[00:02:58] Martin Granström: S. to help lead The design studio for Sony Mobile in Silicon Valley. Over there, I had two major sort of tasks. One was obviously to help create experiences and relationships with Sony Mobile's Verizon and AT& T's of the world and major customers relationships over there. But I also had plenty of opportunity and time to work with the startup community.
[00:03:24] Martin Granström: in Silicon Valley, which I still today appreciate a ton because you learn a lot and you get exposed to many new interesting things. I had the CEO of Yelp up the street. And so you get that community and you get that connection real quick through soccer parents and elsewhere. So it's just an amazing community to be part of.
[00:03:45] Tom Butta: I'm just going for a coffee at Cafe Venezia and on University Avenue and you're, you know, you're in it. You're, you're in it.
[00:03:53] Martin Granström: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So, so I think that also helps with the conversation around innovation, technology, and design because you're exposed to people who live and breathe that every day.
[00:04:03] Martin Granström: So, so that was certainly a great benefit of, of living there as well. And then moving on through my career. a little bit. Being in Silicon Valley after a while, it felt really interesting to try something else. And I spent, you know, after 10 years with Sony and Sony Mobile, it was, it was time and it was tempting.
[00:04:18] Martin Granström: So at that time, 2011, 2012, 2013 ish, Barnes Noble had launched their first reading tablet. Nuke on Android. So I joined that team next to Syrups Park in Silicon Valley. We had a big, nice office over there where we worked on hardware design, app and UX design for the reading tablets. And I led that team for a while.
[00:04:43] Martin Granström: for a couple of years, and then I jumped over to a, like a real startup, uh, and I think, uh, it was humbling, super, super exciting, uh, terrible and fun, everything at once, like a startup should be. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the learnings from those years was really about sense of urgency.
[00:05:05] Martin Granström: Getting things done and, and, uh, really ship and test and, and be close to the experiences that you build. After that, I felt like I wanted like coming back to a bigger family again. So then I joined Samsung and led product design for e commerce and customer support for North America for Samsung, as well as, uh, helping some of the home appliance innovation team with some of the experiences there.
[00:05:34] Martin Granström: I spent almost two years with Samsung, but I also felt at that time that I've been in consumer electronics and mobile and handsets focused for a very long time. And Sam's Club came up and Sam's Club was for me and is for me super, super interesting and fun. Just because for me personally, I wanted to learn something new or a new business, which was retail.
[00:05:58] Martin Granström: Sam's Club has an amazing culture and the The ability to work on a ton of very, very challenging, interesting, and varied set of problems took me back to almost like the agency days, where at Sam's Club, we are responsible end to end for, for all the product designs. So everything you can imagine that is member facing, like e commerce, membership, as well as anything that goes on in the clubs that members and or associates are using.
[00:06:29] Martin Granström: Inventory management, membership express, payment, all the way through the backroom to logistics to FC and DC and services like pharmacy, optical, tire battery center and so on. So that all together makes it such an amazing place to be as a designer and a design leader because if you get tired of working on the checkout flow for e commerce, then there is a ton of other things to work on.
[00:06:54] Martin Granström: So, so that to me is in itself something that is super interesting and fun and still is today. Not only because it gives variety, but also as we've learned over the years, when we expose our designers and design leaders to a different set of problems over time. So they work in two or three years in e commerce and then two or three years on services and then somewhere else.
[00:07:17] Martin Granström: Not only do they become better designers and design leaders just because they're exposed to Uh, a high number of different set of problems. They also become better for the business, obviously, because they become better designers and better at solving problems creatively. So, so that to me is amazing. Do you have a
[00:07:34] Tom Butta: rotation for your team to give them that broad set of experiences?
[00:07:39] Tom Butta: That's
[00:07:39] Martin Granström: a really good question. And we talk about this all the time. We don't, we don't formalize it, but we strongly encourage it. So what we do is that we, every now and then we. Talk to people and making sure that they're still energized around the work that they do. And if they're starting to feel like, yeah, I've been doing this for a while, then we try to speak to all the leaders and say, hey, so and so may be ready to try something different.
[00:08:03] Martin Granström: And so far, uh, you know how it is. It's like changing job. You get a new leader, you get a new area, and you might be a little bit nervous about how's this going to go. But So far, all the designers that have, have done this, and it's plenty by, at this time, are really, really positive about it. They, they can't stop talking about how much new things they've learned and how.
[00:08:25] Martin Granström: re energize their field and their swap
[00:08:27] Tom Butta: area. So this team of designers, is there an opportunity for them to come out of their, I would call it segment, that they might be focused on, and actually relate to the rest of the team that are in other segments and share? Yeah. Is that something that
[00:08:44] Martin Granström: happens? Oh yeah, so the way that we try to do this is that we have We have creative reviews, we have those for the respective experience domains, so for in cloud, or e commerce, or membership and marketing.
[00:08:57] Martin Granström: Well, we constantly make sure to cross pollinate, so that the teams cross share, and we strongly encourage teams from various experience domains to participate and join the other teams creative reviews. And we do these on a bi weekly basis. So, that's one way we do it. The other way is that we meet. every now and then to work on innovation projects.
[00:09:22] Martin Granström: We call it the prototype a month. Prototype a month. Okay. Yeah. So what that is, is it's a way for us to unleash innovation. We don't believe that it should be too formalized. We believe that it should be something that comes from energy, collaboration, and inspiration. And the way that we're encouraging that is, why don't you See if there are other designers or other folks in the organization that might be interested in solving that problem that you've been itching to do more.
[00:09:50] Martin Granström: And the only thing we ask in return is like, Hey, you got to give us a pitch where the requirement we have is you need to be able to do something within a month that you can put in front of members or users. In our case, it's members and, or associates that are users predominantly, and you learn something.
[00:10:08] Martin Granström: So, the worst thing that can happen is that you do just that, you learn something. And the best thing that can happen, and Scan Go Café, by the way, is one of those prototype a month projects that actually gets so appreciated and actually becomes a part of the roadmap. And today, it's out in the clubs. I
[00:10:28] Tom Butta: love the fact that you have this continuous process to drive, and as you point out in your words, unleash innovation.
[00:10:36] Tom Butta: Actually having that be a regular cadence. So it's not like this thing comes in out of nowhere once a year. It's this thing that's probably an inspiration in many ways for people to just. Not deal with the day-to-day, but to kind of go outside that and try
[00:10:53] Martin Granström: stuff on. Yeah. That, that's, that's exactly right.
[00:10:55] Martin Granström: And, and that's also where we, we want it to be a little bit organic. Like, we don't wanna say it's you and you and you have to do it this, this three weeks. Sometimes it's limiting. We also have, uh, we call it a couple of times a year at Sam's Club, we do innovation jam. The larger team comes together for a three, four days, over a weekend or so.
[00:11:15] Martin Granström: And that's also a really, really strong, appreciated, and powerful activity to drive innovation at
[00:11:21] Tom Butta: Sam's Club as well. So that's like super, super focused. Yeah. So what's interesting that I'm hearing is, aside from the fact that, you know, you were, what did you say, you were working on the instrumentation for the nuclear systems?
[00:11:34] Martin Granström: Yeah, for the design of the breathing tablets, yeah.
[00:11:37] Tom Butta: So you, you've worked on physical products,
[00:11:40] Martin Granström: right?
[00:11:41] Tom Butta: You, you are now involved in working in physical locations, a retail store, right? And then. And clearly you've worked on, you know, and are very involved in digital, whether it's websites or whether it's the mobile app, that confluence of all of those, to me, the commonality is A, the customer potentially, right?
[00:12:05] Tom Butta: And B, it's the experience of that
[00:12:07] Martin Granström: customer. Yeah, yeah, I think. One of the things that we've seen and that has evolved over the years is also that combination of physical and digital design. We are doing more and more in that space and we do believe that, and this is I think specific, at least for retail, it's very relevant just because as a customer, as a member, you do both.
[00:12:32] Martin Granström: And why wouldn't we as experienced creators Think about both holistically. It's not just about when you're at the club. It's not just about where the member desk is. It is how you find it. It is how you interact with the member service associates as well as your app or your Scan& Go experiences within the club.
[00:12:51] Martin Granström: Or if you use Scan& Go Fuel. You're at the pump. Where do you look? When do you look at your app to pump fuel and where do you look at what pump number you're at, etc. And we have thousands of these examples, obviously, and that's also another thing where I've seen product design in UX is evolving, especially in our area, which again makes it so exciting to work on both the physical and the digital design.
[00:13:15] Tom Butta: So maybe this is the time we can actually go into your sweatshirt there, Reimagining Retail. Yeah, right. What's that about? Yeah, tell me.
[00:13:22] Martin Granström: So we, so Reimagined Retail is a conference that we are building. We had the first MVP of that conference earlier this year. It's really about that combination of the physical and digital design, where we believe that.
[00:13:40] Martin Granström: The cross functional collaboration, we call them Experience Team at Sam's Club, work together, it's product, it's design, it's engineering, it's operations, it's whoever is involved in creating that experience. Comes together to learn about the problem, understand it. And then build and test with members, users, again and again.
[00:14:03] Martin Granström: So, as we are opening Clubhouse, which I will talk about in a little bit, I think, the Reimagine Retail is a conference that we've done and will continue to do, both internally and externally, focused. to continue to learn and share how we work with both physical and digital design. So the first one, Reimagine Retail Conference, we had at The Ledger in Bentonville this year because our clubhouse building is not ready to move in yet, but we were so eager to start and jumpstart this way of working and collaborating at Sam's Club, so we did a MVP of the conference in September this year, and it was amazing to see people coming together and actually building physical prototypes of of a number of different problems that we gave them to solve.
[00:14:51] Martin Granström: And they went through the conference as experienced teams. And it was just an amazing output. And we're hoping to have our first re imagined retail conference next fall in Clubhouse.
[00:15:02] Tom Butta: And you mentioned that this is not just an internal conference. This is something that you're opening up.
[00:15:08] Martin Granström: Yeah, we also believe that as a product design team in retail.
[00:15:13] Martin Granström: And a really good one, if I may say so. We have something to say. We've learned a ton of things. Yeah, we've learned a ton of things over the last, you know, five, six years in terms of how design for retail, both physical and digital. We also believe that it's a great way to attract talent. It's also a great way to push ourselves to do better and do more in the space.
[00:15:36] Martin Granström: So not only have we seen that the attendants and the people who come to this conference, both internal and external, gets really energized and wants to go again, and they ask when the next one is. But also, my team, we take care of this ourselves. We host this conference ourselves. So the sessions and the workshops drive such an engagement overall.
[00:15:58] Martin Granström: So we do believe that the value that the team gives by hosting these sessions, the designers and the design leaders, also pushes them. You know, because the first one we did now, where the team They did a number of workshops, creative design workshops, building workshops, design thinking workshops, research workshops, etc.
[00:16:18] Martin Granström: Now, next year, people want more and they want to learn more. So what happens then? Well, My team as session leaders and workshops host also need to push themselves to do more in their everyday work so that they can apply that to the conference sessions as we do later
[00:16:35] Tom Butta: on. That's fascinating. I'm sure others would love to see it.
[00:16:37] Tom Butta: I know I would. Clubhouse! You mentioned Clubhouse. Let's talk about Clubhouse. Is that what you call your design studio? Oh, yeah.
[00:16:47] Martin Granström: Clubhouse, man. Uh, yeah. The Clubhouse, we're so, so excited about Clubhouse. So, so let me give you just a brief background of how this kind of happened. So I think we, you know, intuitively have understood the value of physical and digital design for a long time.
[00:17:05] Martin Granström: Two, maybe two and a half, three years ago or so, we were asked to help redesign the member desk experience at Sam's Club. the physical desk in the clubs. As we went through that project, we did our research, we learned about the problems, what the existing desk looked like and what kind of issues it caused in the club for members and associates.
[00:17:27] Martin Granström: And as we did our physical and digital design workshops and iteration, we did sketches, we built up the prototype of the desk in our locations. We have a layout center next to where our merchandising team is doing their work. So we got a little bit of space that we could borrow for a while to set up physical space that we could set up for the member desk when we tried it and we walked users through it.
[00:17:53] Martin Granström: The problem was that it was just a temporary space because that space was not dedicated for this. So we were kind of, we continued that project. The member desk that you see now in the clubs, that is L shaped. That's the outcome of that work, and we've seen so many great outcomes based on that redesign.
[00:18:12] Martin Granström: So, me and my head of research, April, who led much of that work, we talked after and we said, Hey, why don't we do, like, propose to build a purpose built design studio for physical and digital design? And I worked with my, you know, we thought it was a good idea, you know, but it's people dream, right? And then, and then I worked on my pitch deck and, you know.
[00:18:35] Martin Granström: Finally, I got time with, with our CEO and I was ready to sort of do my pitch and I got to like slide three and she was like, let's do it. And I was like, Oh man, this is so great. And then of course, I got to see those
[00:18:47] Tom Butta: first two slides. Yeah.
[00:18:50] Martin Granström: I think it has less to do with the slides. Uh, and more to do with, uh, with, uh, the amazing buy in understanding our team has for, for design thinking also at the executive level.
[00:19:03] Tom Butta: That's brilliant. So is it like a living lab? Yeah,
[00:19:07] Martin Granström: it is. We took that proposal, of course, through the rigor of approvals and committees, etc. But the studio itself is purpose built. So it's not meant to be a, like a art gallery or a museum or anything like that. It's meant to really support the activities you do when you create.
[00:19:28] Martin Granström: So we have, it has, you could call it like maybe four main sections, which is a library, we call it, which is really connected to the first step in design thinking, which is about learning. And the idea is that you go there as experience teams, like three, four, five, six people that have a problem that they want to solve.
[00:19:47] Martin Granström: Maybe we want to create a better EULA desk at the club. The team goes there, thinks through what problems they want to solve, and then they go to the next section of the building, which is the ideation workshop area, where they ideate ideas. How could we solve this? Is it a physical and or digital solution that we may want to do?
[00:20:08] Martin Granström: So they generate a lot of ideas together as a cross functional team. Then they go to the next area, which is the largest space in this design studio. It's a 10, 000 square foot open space with a concrete slab. It looks very much like a club, but it's just empty. And then you take your thing over there, carve it out in cardboard or styrofoam or whatever.
[00:20:30] Martin Granström: And you build it. And the idea is there that we bring in members or associates and test it. This is not meant to be something final or polished. It's supposed to iterate like you do when you, when you create. So we test, it's going to fail, and then we build again and then we try again. And then ideally we get to something that we feel like we want to do in more short mode with like real members and associates in our clubs.
[00:20:56] Martin Granström: So We strongly believe in this approach. We also strongly believe that the way to collaborate and create like this for both physical and digital, that you have a dedicated space for this, that it's permanent, so it doesn't go away. We also believe that this is truly the way to democratize innovation.
[00:21:15] Martin Granström: This studio doesn't belong to the design team, it belongs to everyone at Sam’s Club. I can
[00:21:21] Tom Butta: understand the physical and real sort of nature of having this clubhouse facility to try things, test things, learn. How does that apply to the digital world? Let's just say, has that applied to, I don't know, your websites, your ads, your, you know, all the components that lead to you to go in out of the store?
[00:21:43] Tom Butta: Would you do before, during, after kind of
[00:21:45] Martin Granström: thing? Yeah, thank you for asking that. And I think that's also why we believe it's both physical and digital. So let's imagine that we are thinking about how to create a better experience for our members when something's out of stock and our members are. Walking through the cloud with Scan Go, but they can't find what they're looking for at the shelf.
[00:22:06] Martin Granström: So if we would create something in the studio for that, we would build a shelf or two, but there is a digital aspect because you walk around with your app there. So there needs to be that part of it too. So both those needs to exist when you do this. So there is a digital aspect in the app or the experience, as well as a physical aspect of being in the club or in the backroom or whatever it is that we're testing.
[00:22:28] Martin Granström: So both of them should, for the most part, exist when you do these things. Even when we thought about the member desk, the physical desk, yeah, it has workflow issues. It has, you know, design issues, but also what equipments do you put there? Where do the, you know, different digital displays and monitors and phones go that we provide the associates to support the members when they're in the cloud?
[00:22:52] Martin Granström: Yeah.
[00:22:52] Tom Butta: Or what is the, I don't know, as a member comes in, you know, what is the nature of the digital nature of their profile? Exactly. So that you can find information as quickly as possible. And then. What is the digital nature of the customer's profile for themselves and all of the things they need to know and have in their wallet or whatever it, you know, it might
[00:23:11] Martin Granström: be, right?
[00:23:12] Martin Granström: Exactly. So, so it's both. And we are setting this. clubhouse, the studio, from an IT and, you know, perspective similar to how a club is set up. So you should be able to mimic all the digital aspects as well as the physical aspects as we do experiment and play in there.
[00:23:31] Tom Butta: So one of the things I love that you said early on is what attracted you, I think, to Sam's Club is the idea of being able to actually both be involved in and if not lead the end to end.
[00:23:43] Tom Butta: I would call it unified experience, right? And it's not often that you actually see that level of unification. And we, as customers, you know, we both have phones, we both have apps, we both shop digitally and in stores. And the experiences that we have are often disconnected from the very same brand. I'm not talking about a brand that, you know, has, I would call it very different digital experiences.
[00:24:09] Tom Butta: You know, a big company that might have a training, you know, app, but they also sell product and another app and that kind of thing. And you would think that you'd want to maintain that same relationship across those, but in this case, it's much more. I would say tied together. Yeah. Right. And important because it's like, wait, it's Sam's club and it's, you know, and it's Martin, right?
[00:24:29] Tom Butta: So how do those things continuously work well together? Yeah.
[00:24:33] Martin Granström: Yeah. Yeah. So no matter what. Yeah. And this is something that we also think more and more about as we progress on this journey to combine both physical and digital, right? So We've had the, the notion or the concept of something that's called design system in the digital like world for many years.
[00:24:54] Martin Granström: And design system, what that really means is that we do create a UX, like screen components for apps and UI that we create that, that not just look and feel the same, they also behave the same. So list of contacts or a dropdown menu or whatever flow you're going through. It behaves, feels, and looks the same, no matter what type of product or experience you use.
[00:25:23] Martin Granström: We have a design system at Sam's Club as well, and we call it Blue Steel. Uh, just because it's a fun internal name. Uh, it's also a good movie, but Sam's is blue. Uh, the steel is something that our associates through research refer to all the time, obviously, because The steel is the shelves that our products sit on in the clubs, so we wanted a connection to the club and our associates as well, so we call it Blue Steel.
[00:25:48] Martin Granström: And the design system is really an expression of the brand in terms of colors, look and feel and all that. And that is super important that that is cohesive and coherent. Now when you think about interaction and interaction design, the way that it works is It's even more important so that if you as a member have used an e commerce solution on your phone at home and go to the club and sign up for a membership through a kiosk, it should feel and work the same way so that you are not like have to relearn.
[00:26:25] Martin Granström: Yes. Uh, now if we think about that concept, also physical. And that's also why we're thinking about this clubhouse and how to utilize it. What if you extend that to how it feels to experience the physical experience when you're in the club? How does wayfinding work? Where do you see signs? How do you interact with the various parts in the club when you need to order a cake or when you go through Scan Go Cafe or when you fill up gas?
[00:26:55] Martin Granström: So all of that. Needs to come together to be both cohesive and coherent when you experience this as a member. Equally as important is it to deliver the same consumer grade experience and quality for our associates. Because those are the heart, the rhythm, and the soul of our company, our in club associates.
[00:27:19] Martin Granström: Of course, they need, and also deserve, the best possible tools we can give them. And the way to do that is to deliver the same principle, right? Cohesive, coherent, easy to use, easy to understand. So that when they do their jobs, quickly can swap from one job to another using digital or physical tools. Thank you.
[00:27:38] Martin Granström: And get to it to serve the member better and faster. That's great.
[00:27:42] Tom Butta: Okay, we're going to come to another topic and as a way to complete the discussion. So here we are, it's holiday season and a big deal holiday season, especially for retail. So what, from your perspective, and you're, you're very much a, you know, a holistic thinker about, about things.
[00:28:01] Tom Butta: What's different about this time of year? Or this period versus, say, the rest of the year, if it is even different in your
[00:28:10] Martin Granström: mind. Yeah, I think obviously we are certainly as a retail business, we are a retail business, let's not forget that, tied to the traditional sort of retail calendar in terms of sales, revenue, etc.
[00:28:25] Martin Granström: That hasn't gone away. However, I do think that it's changing, and I do think it's evolving, especially now when we are Giving our members service and tools and ability to shop where they want, when they want, and how they want. So therefore, less and less important becomes to sort of the, I don't know what we're going to call that, made up seasonal holidays.
[00:28:50] Martin Granström: And it becomes more member focused. So what's important for our members and our customers is, can I get my kid the right equipment for school start? Yeah, that's a given, right? So I think it's more about Member driven and member based based on their needs and what they need to help them in their everyday lives versus specific seasons of the year.
[00:29:14] Martin Granström: And I think we're going to see more and more of that transition. What
[00:29:17] Tom Butta: advice would you give others who put a lot of effort, I would say, and have a lot of expectations around, you know, Black Friday and Cyber Monday and things like that? Any advice you would give others?
[00:29:29] Martin Granström: Uh, that's a tougher question. I think, like, you got to go where your market is.
[00:29:34] Martin Granström: Uh, and where your customers and your members are. So if, if there is an expectation or a market demand or market need for, you know, discounts, better prices, savings in our case, yeah, we should of course help our members get that if that's important to them. So, so I don't think that type of notion or concept goes away.
[00:29:53] Martin Granström: So if you can be where your members are and meet them there, then double down is my recommendation. That's great.
[00:30:00] Tom Butta: Yeah. Okay. I've really loved speaking with you. So we're going to come to the final section, which we do with all the guests and it's kind of rapid fire questions. So, um, um, maybe easy one, uh, Apple or Android?
[00:30:14] Martin Granström: Both. Both. I figured. So because of my history, I use one of them for a couple of years and then I swap for another year. Like that's your favorite
[00:30:24] Tom Butta: city in the world. And I would say maybe one to visit. Versus one to live in, but it could
[00:30:31] Martin Granström: be both. Yeah, to visit is probably Tokyo. I'm with you there. Yeah. Why?
[00:30:38] Martin Granström: It's so vibrant. It's got such an interesting pulse. Food is amazing. People are awesome. It's safe. And it's huge.
[00:30:45] Tom Butta: You talk about a design culture. Yeah. That's right. Like such an appreciation. Oh yeah. For
[00:30:51] Martin Granström: everything. Like everything. It's just the minutiae of how precise and distinct everything is. It's just amazing to see.
[00:30:58] Tom Butta: How about a favorite place to live?
[00:31:01] Martin Granström: Where I am? West Coast, California. It's, it's just amazing. I got steps away from surf, mountain biking, and nature. So, so, I'm in my paradise.
[00:31:12] Tom Butta: Okay. Do you have a favorite vacation
[00:31:13] Martin Granström: spot? Sometimes I long, as a Swede, I long for snow. So, today, that's like Tahoe, maybe. Or go back to Sweden for the holidays.
[00:31:25] Martin Granström: I don't miss the great November, but maybe snow, or Real warmth, like tropical warmth, Bali, Costa Rica, are places that I, I appreciate.
[00:31:36] Tom Butta: Last question, any particular, I don't know, trends, innovations? I mean, there's, you know, everybody's obviously talking about experimenting with AI, but it could be AI, but maybe even beyond that.
[00:31:50] Tom Butta: That you're, you're, you're, you see it, so it's not quite in focus yet, but you can see it right there.
[00:31:57] Martin Granström: Yeah. So I think for my industry and for, and, and that, what I mean by that is a product design and design. One observation that I have made, and I think it's going to become more and more so the coming years is that being more granular and deliberate to.
[00:32:16] Martin Granström: Focus the way that you create and the way that you design, depending on what business you're in. So retail, physical and digital, for example, is very relevant and very important for many reasons. Uh, so I think in, and of course that becomes equally relevant and important in other areas and in other businesses.
[00:32:36] Martin Granström: Automotive is another one where I think it's just started to change in terms of how you think about design. And then I think, uh, for the business as a whole. I do think that the maybe a little bit dated concept of design agencies is going to be going away a little bit. I think that now we've had time to learn and to practice and to build really, really strong in house design teams.
[00:33:03] Martin Granström: So I think a lot of that, that you maybe 10, 15 years ago spent bulk of your budget purchasing in terms of design power, you can now do in house. Yeah. Got it. Yeah.
[00:33:17] Tom Butta: Yeah. So it becomes intrinsic. I think so. Which is, I think, why you're having such success at Sam's Club with Clubhouse when two slides into your presentation, the CEO says, let's do it.
[00:33:30] Tom Butta: Absolutely. Yeah. That's great. Martin, this was really fantastic. I love talking to you before we were on camera and I love talking to you on camera here. So thank you so much for your time and I wish you and your family a healthy
[00:33:45] Martin Granström: holiday season. Likewise, and I genuinely appreciated the conversation and thank you so much.
[00:33:53] Voiceover: Thank you for listening to Masters of Max, a mobile app experience podcast brought to you by the team at Airship. Find out more about how you can help your brand deliver better, more personalized app experiences at airship. com. If you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to subscribe and rate the show.