Today, Tom is joined by Lisa Joy Rosner, an award winning, patented CMO with over two decades of experience launching and/or turning around enterprise software companies. Lisa brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the show, having managed teams of 500+ and budgets of $300M with revenues of $46B.
Today, Tom is joined by Lisa Joy Rosner, an award winning, patented CMO with over two decades of experience launching and/or turning around enterprise software companies. Lisa brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the show, having managed teams of 500+ and budgets of $300M with revenues of $46B.
In her conversation with Tom, Lisa shares how she views the mobile app as a key tool in the future as brands aim to strengthen their customer loyalty, engagement, and relationships. Whether it be through adding new features such as AR/VR, implementing AI to better predict exactly when a customer will need a daily product restocked, or asking personalization questions after trust has been established.
Additionally, Lisa and Tom discuss what exactly brands should focus on as the market continues to face uncertain times ahead. When the first instinct is typically to buckle down and operate as lean as possible, what’s often overlooked is what will then happen once the storm is over and you need to restart your engines.
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Guest Bio
Lisa Joy Rosner is a metrics-driven leader with over 20 years of executive experience marketing big data and analytics solutions for public and start-up companies in Mar-Tech, Auto-Tech, IoT, Security, Big Data Analytics, and e-commerce.
Most recently the SVP Brand and Digital at Oracle, her teams included customer, sports, and industry marketing, as well as brand experience design, the website, keynotes, the sales portal, and global advertising.
Previously, Lisa Joy served as CMO at Otonomo, launching an exciting new category in Autotech, and before that, led a major brand transformation at Neustar. Additionally, she was the CMO at NetBase (sold to Quid), MyBuys (sold to Magnetic), and BroadVision Inc. An avid yogi and swimmer, Lisa Joy is an advisor to CrowdSmart and Quantifind and the mother of four energetic teenagers.
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Guest Quote
"We as brands, we're forming relationships with our consumers. Consumers are always willing to trade personalization for value, personalization for an experience, and so it goes back to that respect and trust." – Lisa Joy Rosner
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Time Stamps
*(01:10) Lisa’s Background
*(04:11) How the brand-consumer relationship has transformed via the mobile app
*(08:17) Apps in everyday life
*(12:26) The ways brands are experimenting with VR and AR
*(14:32) Will consumers continue to give brands their data?
*(19:53) Adding in-car features to your app
*(24:16) How should brands operate during uncertain times?
*(28:24) Rapid Fire Questions
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Links
[00:00:00] Lisa Joy Rosner: We as brands, we're forming relationships with our consumers. Consumers are human beings. Whether you're B two B, B two C, B two B two C, it's still, you're interacting with someone as a heartbeat. Consumers are always willing to trade personalization for value, personalization for an experience, and so again, it goes back to that respect and trust.
[00:00:28] Lisa Joy Rosner: Welcome to Masters of Max, a mobile app Experience podcast. Please welcome your host, Tom Butta, chief Strategy and Marketing Officer at Airship.
[00:00:39] Tom Butta: Well, it's a pleasure to be here today with our very special guest, Lisa Joy Rosner. Lisa, welcome to the podcast of Mastering Mats.
[00:00:48] Lisa Joy Rosner: Thank you so much, Tom. I'm so excited to be here.
[00:00:51] Lisa Joy Rosner: Great. It's
[00:00:51] Tom Butta: great to see you again. So people probably, you know, who are in this world of, um, uh, of marketing and strategy and, and especially technology may already know who you are, but perhaps for the whole audience, maybe you could just give us a quick description of maybe the arc of your career.
[00:01:08] Lisa Joy Rosner: So first of all, thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:10] Lisa Joy Rosner: I'm really excited to have this conversation with you. I'm a big fan. I have been marketing in tech for, it's crazy to say, but over 30 years and have had this really interesting, I would say, tapestry of a career. The common thread that weaves everything that I've done together is an absolute love of data and analytics.
[00:01:35] Lisa Joy Rosner: And also as a marketer using data analytics and analytics to steer and guide everything that I do. So interestingly, I've been on, you talk about an arc, I've been on this journey where, when I first came to Silicon Valley, my first job was at Oracle and I was the assistant to what is now called A C M O, I believe it was probably called, you know, a c p of marketing then, and it was there that I decided I wanted to do just that.
[00:02:03] Lisa Joy Rosner: And so my career has been made up of working at very early stage companies. Large companies large. And when I was at Oracle and decided I wanted to be the head of marketing one day, I made myself available to all of my managers direct reports, did special projects, learned everything I could, and decided that to be a c o I should walk in the shoes.
[00:02:27] Lisa Joy Rosner: Every piece of marketing. And so I mapped out a plan for myself and I worked in field marketing and then digital marketing and corporate communications, and. Across the board, uh, when I landed my first role as Head of marketing, launching a company called Market Touch. And from there, uh, I became the C M O at Broad Vision in the very, very early days of e-commerce, helping major retailers come online and, and transformed from brick and mortar.
[00:03:02] Lisa Joy Rosner: Digital and Tom, I've been on the, at the forefront early disruption of technology. So there was, there was big data in the early days with Brio and then e-commerce with Broad and my buys, and then the early days of social media applying N L P to understanding consumers at NetBase. And then I went back to being a big company, uh, C M O, working at Neustar.
[00:03:28] Lisa Joy Rosner: And then I did this really interesting period, which I'd love to talk to about the early days of connected cars and what that means for the way that brands engage with consumers. And then full circle, uh, most recently running a big part of the global marketing team as the senior Vice President of brand and digital at Oracle.
[00:03:49] Tom Butta: I'm sure that you, from the time you started and you, you set your sights on having the, the big job to the time you came back. I'm sure you saw a lot of things change. Most notably, I would say, going from like this brand-centric world to a customer-centric world. Oh, yeah. Where, where it's not what you say, it's what they say that matters a hundred percent.
[00:04:10] Tom Butta: So, yeah. How do you think that idea of, you know, customers are in charge, customers are empowered, customers are calling the shots, how do you think that's really changed? How, how people market brands? Well,
[00:04:23] Lisa Joy Rosner: I that, that's just an excellent comment and it sort of goes back to the work I was doing at NetBase and the very early days of social listening and.
[00:04:38] Lisa Joy Rosner: To customers are in charge and we talk to consumers and ask them how they feel brands listening to them. That whole privacy issue and what consumers told us was. Don't eavesdrop on my conversations, but if I tweet at you that I'm having trouble, you know, in an airline, you know, with a, with a canceled flight, or I'm having a customer service issue, I want you to listen to me and solve my problem, but don't eavesdrop.
[00:05:10] Lisa Joy Rosner: So my conversations kind of cake and eat it too. Please listen, but don't listen. Just pay attention and solve my problems. And as marketers. We have to really spend the time to get to know our customers and treat them in the most highly curated, highly personalized and highly respectful way
[00:05:34] Tom Butta: possible.
[00:05:34] Tom Butta: That's interesting because all of those touch points, all of those experiences, all those interactions create data. And you talked about the importance of data and analytics. So what kinds of things do you pay attention to or, or would you suggest people should be paying attention to who are. You know, in charge of, again, driving those interactions with consumers for their brands.
[00:05:56] Lisa Joy Rosner: So first of all, I think it's really important to talk to your customers. One of the things that we did regularly at Oracle was use n P S in a lot of different ways. We talked to over 70,000 customers a year just to understand their sentiment, what's working, what's not working. I think when you create any kind of campaign, that permission piece is really important.
[00:06:21] Lisa Joy Rosner: And, uh, being respectful of space. I think understanding from your customer what channels they want to be engaged with is really, really critical. Some people don't mind getting emails. Some people wanna get a text. Um, even though it might be interrupt driven, I, I'm, you know, a consumer will wanna know the minute you have something that they're really interested in.
[00:06:43] Lisa Joy Rosner: And so what I've learned is that you have to put the customer at the center of everything you do and engage with them, the cadence and on the channel and with, with relevance and value at at every step.
[00:06:59] Tom Butta: And the other word I think you used before was respect. So first of all, there's laws now of course about misusing data, right?
[00:07:06] Tom Butta: But I think one of the really cool things that, that we've been given the opportunity to participate in as consumers is this idea of setting preferences. Mm-hmm. Right, which is, here's what I'm interested in, here's what I'm not interested in. Here's when I'm interested in being communicated with, here's how I'm interested in being communicated.
[00:07:28] Tom Butta: Like, sure, as you said, some people prefer text. Some people prefer, you know, notifications. Some people prefer everything to be in the app. Some people prefer to have, I don't know, confirmations through their email that they might do in their, like whatever it might be. You can set all those preferences these days.
[00:07:43] Lisa Joy Rosner: Yeah. And then you know, Tom, the other layer, which is one of the topics I'm getting really, really excited about is AI and the role that AI is gonna play for us as marketers and for us as consumers. There's a balance between both preference setting and ai. Sort of conjecturing or, or figuring out how to engage with consumers and how to talk to consumers.
[00:08:09] Lisa Joy Rosner: I see that in the future taking a really big role in how we execute our campaigns.
[00:08:16] Tom Butta: Interesting. So, so maybe let me, let's talk a little bit about, uh, you know, the, kind of, the title of the podcast of Max, which stands for Mobile App Experiences. Right? What, I assume you have apps on your phone that you might regularly interact with.
[00:08:32] Lisa Joy Rosner: You know, I, I have a, a few hundred. Okay. Yes. I, I've even learned to just make lots and lots of folders to keep things organized. Right. But yes, I have
[00:08:42] Tom Butta: many. Right. Is do you find that you are, you are using apps more as the kind of vehicle through which you want to interact with a brand?
[00:08:52] Lisa Joy Rosner: A hundred percent.
[00:08:53] Lisa Joy Rosner: It's my go-to and that goes across. Personal, every business application, my.
[00:09:06] Lisa Joy Rosner: And the first thing I did was download the app and the VP of sales and I had this big joke that, you know, we could just approve, uh, expense reports while sitting at red lights. Like it just made everything. And actually that's really dangerous, so I don't recommend people doing that. Yeah, it was kind of a joke about that's how easy it is that we could do it that way.
[00:09:25] Lisa Joy Rosner: But I think that. Myself, who's, you know, I'm a digital immigrant, but, uh, but an early digital immigrant. I, my, I, at this point, it's intuitive to immediately say, is there an app for that? And just solve, like, conduct business to business, business and business to consumer business inside an app. And that's why I have hundreds of them and I've created folders.
[00:09:46] Tom Butta: Yeah. Well that's great. That's great to know. So you talked about personalization, you talked about res data. Sharing and the respect that needs to take place. You talked about creating value. You probably travel, you probably have travel apps, you might have banking apps, you might have entertainment apps.
[00:10:03] Tom Butta: You have news.
[00:10:05] Lisa Joy Rosner: You know, remember when online banking first came out, the apps first came out, did these great commercials of people like. Sitting on the toilet going, look, I can pay my bills. Right, exactly. In traffic and on the toilet, you know, things you're not supposed to really talk about. I, I can't even remember the last time I stepped into a bank.
[00:10:25] Lisa Joy Rosner: So yes, there is online banking for all my fitness, you know, everything is there now. All the fitness centers have built in videos. I will, you know, listen to them, watch them on my phone. I don't do a lot of. Social media, but I do spend time on LinkedIn. I do all the shopping of any kind. Apps all interactions.
[00:10:49] Lisa Joy Rosner: In fact, this is, this one's kind of very recent, um, anything related to doctors. Yesterday I spent quite a bit of time doing cross-linking of all my different epic accounts to get one unified record for myself and for each of my four children. So now, you know, I don't even think to pick up the phone, everything to talk to someone.
[00:11:08] Lisa Joy Rosner: I just do everything in the app with all of my doctors. All of my shopping of any form, I don't even go to a pharmacy anymore. One of my favorite apps is Alto Pharmacy. I just click, click, click, and then it just shows up at my door within a few hours. It's amazing. And now we're kind of spoiled because I expect the kind of, you know, white glove service from
[00:11:30] Tom Butta: everyone.
[00:11:30] Tom Butta: Yeah. But like I said before, that last best experience, you know, dictates what you expect others. To do. And that makes sense. Let's probe on one thing here. You talked about something very, very interesting, the idea of having said the unified record. So maybe it's, you know, it's, maybe it's the, the unified, I don't know, customer profile.
[00:11:50] Tom Butta: Mm-hmm. If you will. Right. And the reason why I'm probe on it is because, In retail as an example, right? Mm-hmm. You started out having an experience with a brand and their shops or in their stores, right? And then they introduced an online capability, right? Via the web. Mm-hmm. And then they introduced an app.
[00:12:10] Tom Butta: What's your experience been in seeing how brands are able to meld the kind of digital, with the physical, um,
[00:12:20] Lisa Joy Rosner: Yeah, and I actually it, that's another thing that I was, I was thinking about with regards to innovation and what's coming next. I think that what's happening with VR and AR is really the next frontier.
[00:12:32] Lisa Joy Rosner: Brands have been experimenting with them, but there are different, I mean, if you want, I can name names, otherwise we can talk about it, you know, generically. But see this in my room. Right or virtually try this on or see how this paint color looks on the wall. That coming into that, uh, external dimension to bring the store experience onto your, onto your little screen, I think is, is fantastic.
[00:13:01] Lisa Joy Rosner: It's gonna get better.
[00:13:09] Lisa Joy Rosner: VR and AR is, is going to really change the way anything brick and mortar goes to almost, if not exclusively, almost exclusively
[00:13:19] Tom Butta: digital. What it really is about is it's actually tapping into the power of visualization. Mm-hmm. Right? I mean, you know, you can get as philosophical as you want here, like, you know, if you can't see it, it's hard to actually do it.
[00:13:34] Tom Butta: Right. Mm-hmm. Um, but the power of visualization is huge and I think that's what you're talking about.
[00:13:41] Lisa Joy Rosner: Absolutely. And, and I mean, I haven't done it yet for clothing 'cause I feel like clothing you really, really have to try it on. But, um, for housewares, Those kinds of things. I've, I've recently bought lamps that I just, I, you know, I, I, I felt really silly with my phone, you know, trying to position it.
[00:14:00] Lisa Joy Rosner: And I got it on the desk and I was like, oh, that looks great. And then it showed up and it looked exactly as it did in that, that little model. And I, and then again, it goes back to trust and I was like, oh, I can do this. I now another experience. I don't have to get in the car and slept to the store and waste the gas and dah, dah, dah, dah, all the time consuming.
[00:14:19] Lisa Joy Rosner: I can just do this silly dance with my phone balance, you know, some basic things and understand will this work for me as a consumer, and boom, it's at my door one or two days later.
[00:14:32] Tom Butta: So we're talking about all these experiences that are adding value and um, and they probably add more value when they know who you are.
[00:14:41] Tom Butta: Right? And, and you talked about personalization and stuff. So what is that world like, that world of sharing, how much do you think people are willing to share, and how much should brands ask of people to share? What's that dynamic like? Well,
[00:14:57] Lisa Joy Rosner: you know, Tom, you know, this goes back to some of the stuff that I did at at New Star years ago.
[00:15:02] Lisa Joy Rosner: There's, there are different levels of personalization. There are segments, people who buy this also buy this, and just getting lumped into a segment that still enables a certain amount of personalization where you don't have to share too much. You know, p i I. And then there's that opt-in where you tell people your birthday and your favorite color and, and all the other things.
[00:15:24] Lisa Joy Rosner: And again, it goes back to what I said earlier, consumers are always willing to trade personalization for value. Personalization for an experience. I mean, I can't think of anyone that I know who doesn't use a, an online mapping technology, whether it's or.
[00:15:49] Lisa Joy Rosner: Like, let the universe know. The interwebs know where they are and where they're going because who wants to hold a physical in the anymore? And I don't think people even to think, oh my God, you know, someone knows where I am right now. Don't think about it because. I'm gonna get there on time with the fastest route, I'll be alerted if there's, you know, some kind of traffic.
[00:16:12] Lisa Joy Rosner: And so it's just, it's that give and take of value. And so when you, you go back to that personalization, I think that there's a level of personalization that can happen at the segment level where you'll get. You will get mostly relevant offers and sometimes things that are random or the next level down where you're willing to really opt in and share a lot more content about yourself so that every interaction is highly relevant.
[00:16:41] Lisa Joy Rosner: I mean, people have very short attention spans, they have short patience, and as, uh, brands, we have to be as relevant as possible, as quickly as possible in the right channel.
[00:16:53] Tom Butta: So what's an experience like? You, you found out about an app, somehow you decided, um, that you wanted to download it and try it.
[00:17:02] Tom Butta: What's that experience like early now? You're exchanging information, ideally, right? They're asking questions for your, I don't know, preferences or interests or whatever it might be, and you're providing information. How important is that to do, like quickly?
[00:17:18] Lisa Joy Rosner: Yeah, there's a few things I would say. So it's better to start with two questions, always have as a best practice skip button, and then come back again and ask two more questions and still have that skip button and not push it.
[00:17:34] Lisa Joy Rosner: I think a lot of times as marketers B two B or B two C, we try to, it's kinda like dating. You don't ask. All the questions on the first day, you get to know each other. They get, know each other a little bit better. And so, you know, we, we, as brands, we're forming relationships with our consumers. Consumers are human beings.
[00:17:52] Lisa Joy Rosner: Whether you're b2b, b2c, B2B, two C, it's still, you're interacting with someone who has a heartbeat. And so it, again, it goes back to that respect and trust. Building that relationship and, and demonstrating you gimme this information and then sometimes, you know, it's a birthday card and a promotion or it's getting ads that make sense.
[00:18:18] Lisa Joy Rosner: Tell me two more things about you,
[00:18:20] Tom Butta: right? Right. Et cetera. You said something that I think is fundamental to this idea of, you know, winning customer relationships and all of that. And the word there is relationships. Right? And, and I love, I love your recommendation. Start with two questions. Right. Provide a skip button.
[00:18:40] Tom Butta: You know, if you want to ask more, just like you don't ask for the order, you know, on the first date No. Like, kind of, kind of thing. Right?
[00:18:51] Lisa Joy Rosner: Unless you're my husband who proposed me on our first date, and somehow it did work out. I thought it was crazy. But here we are, 18 years later with
[00:19:00] Tom Butta: four kids. Did you respond on the first to the proposal?
[00:19:04] Lisa Joy Rosner: Yes. Oh, I told him he was crazy. Uh, and then I laid out my, my criteria.
[00:19:12] Tom Butta: Of course you did.
[00:19:13] Lisa Joy Rosner: Of course you did. No, there, there, there're really little things. I said we had to be together for a year. Our firstborn daughter needed to be named Dina and we had to have vacation compatibility. And we ended up getting married exactly a year later.
[00:19:26] Lisa Joy Rosner: And our firstborn daughter is named Dina, and we travel well together. Oh my God. But it doesn't usually work this way.
[00:19:35] Tom Butta: Wow. You set the stage and, and boy, he maybe he should be in our business, like Right.
[00:19:42] Lisa Joy Rosner: He's pretty awesome. But I did think he was crazy, like on the first date. And, and no, you, you know, you don't, you don't go straight for the club
[00:19:49] Tom Butta: is Yeah.
[00:19:51] Tom Butta: Wow. That's very funny. So one of the things I know you wanted to come back to, so I wanna be sure that we come back to it, and that is, you talked about connected cars and Yeah. When you think about the app and the importance of the app, and you've got hundreds of 'em, and you use most of them as often as is necessary for that particular type of experience, and a lot of people think about the app and the app and the phone.
[00:20:12] Tom Butta: Mm-hmm. But then you get in your car. Then you get in your car.
[00:20:15] Lisa Joy Rosner: So here's the interesting thing about the car. The car is an extension of your home. And that the car is something that many people, men more than women, but people in general, a huge percentage, them feel is an extension also of themselves, a representation of themselves.
[00:20:34] Lisa Joy Rosner: Something highly personal. So a phone is just a device. It's just a piece of equipment. You stick it in your pocket, you stick it in your purse, and there's a certain distance from it that, that even goes back to. Of course, I'll, of course, I'll let the innerwebs know where I'm and, and give directions, but when you get into your car, It's like inviting this app into your sacred space, into your house, into your sense of self.
[00:21:04] Lisa Joy Rosner: And so the permission to market to a consumer in the car has to be even more. To be even more careful and deliver even more value and really be careful with asking permission. And yes, there there's also a lot of regulation around it, but aside from the regulation, the way a brand chooses to interact with a consumer by asking permission to.
[00:21:37] Lisa Joy Rosner: Tom, I studied this a lot. I talked to consumers all over, literally the world, to find out how they feel about it. And it's interesting because information they would give their phone is not information they would give their car, even though the car, like if the, if you're in your car and your phone is in your pocket, Where just like the car knows where you're, but so it's, you know, it's that psychological thing of this car is an extension of my, you know, no brand cannot come into my, but I can talk to you on my phone.
[00:22:11] Lisa Joy Rosner: And so I think that we are. Closer to a time where a lot of marketing is gonna happen in the car, and marketers are gonna have to think about the way they, they get that invitation to come into the living room
[00:22:26] Tom Butta: on wheels. What other types of apps do you think could make it into the car?
[00:22:31] Lisa Joy Rosner: Well, there's, they, they already are coming into being that, that are being tested, but any kind of fueling.
[00:22:39] Lisa Joy Rosner: Hmm. But also, I mean, if you give permission to, let's say a quick serve restaurant, restaurants market to you, they, they might know that you're, you. Running low on gas soon and talk to your Navigate, you know, your navigation system to take you to refill gas next to their quick serve restaurant and send you a coupon to the vehicle, right?
[00:23:06] Lisa Joy Rosner: We can get to that level of sophistication or steer guide you to a mall with a coupon for. Right. Or even take into account that changing and a raincoat at nearby, there's a's a lot different ways that. The technology improves and consumers appetite for curated experiences grow and Yeah, and becomes more sophisticated.
[00:23:38] Tom Butta: Or you've driven 600 miles and it's late and they wanna pull you over to a Starbucks. Or
[00:23:43] Lisa Joy Rosner: a hotel. Or a hotel. Definitely. Definitely a hotel. And the thing is, that's interesting, just like you and me, that. I mean, again, I, I grew up with this, I've been studying this my whole career, so it doesn't sound freaky, but to like my dad, that would totally freak him out.
[00:23:57] Lisa Joy Rosner: But the other thing to consider are the digital natives. How they will not only not be freaked out by it, they will expect it to be served. At every, every mile. Hmm.
[00:24:11] Tom Butta: Yeah. Okay. We just entered 2023. It's kind of a gloomy time. There's a lot of uncertainty in the world. Layoffs from what seem to be the companies that we're doing the best, right?
[00:24:24] Tom Butta: Tens of thousands of people are being, you know, being let go. How do you operate in this? In a time like this, you know, what kind of decisions do you make? What do you focus on? What do you not do?
[00:24:35] Lisa Joy Rosner: So I think Tom and I, and I would be really curious to hear your, your perspective and reaction. A lot of companies right now are removing their CMOs.
[00:24:45] Lisa Joy Rosner: Not replacing them, replacing, combining the marketing departments with sales or operations or strategy. And I think it's a little bit dangerous to be doing that. And one of the things that I think is that the companies that continue to invest in marketing during this. Time of uncertainty will absolutely be setting themselves up for success.
[00:25:11] Lisa Joy Rosner: Marketing is always ahead of the rest of the business. We're, we're planting the seeds. We're like the Johnny Apple seed, right? We're planting those seeds for the future. And some of those seeds have been sprouting since those layoffs, and they, they'll be a resonance from the campaigns that have been running.
[00:25:29] Lisa Joy Rosner: But once they run their course and there's nothing coming next, Because the marketing plans have been shut down, uh, I think brands are really gonna suffer. So yes, I understand. You know, you cut the fat. There's always fat in an organization. I think this is where we go back to data. We use the data to figure out which, which campaigns, which programs, which strategies are truly helping sales.
[00:25:55] Lisa Joy Rosner: Sell, but I think it's really, really important in this down market to continue to do fully integrated programs and then measure them all the way through to the completion of sales and share that accountability. But turning the engine off completely, six to nine months from now, we'll leave. And sales quite barren.
[00:26:17] Tom Butta: I completely agree with that. That's been my experience as well. And, and it's also the, you know, the data and there's one study in particular by Bain that proves that those brands that invest during these times of uncertainty will come out. The other end in a better position than those that didn't. A hundred percent.
[00:26:35] Tom Butta: Um, and yeah, and I think, look, I think there, there is definitely the need for facing the world as it is. Mm-hmm. Right? There's definitely a need to focus on the things that work, understand the things that aren't working. And why? And you either drop them or you try new stuff. Correct. Right. And, and I think in a, and this is maybe a little bit of an, an odd combination of words, but I think you need to be both practical and bold at the
[00:27:06] Lisa Joy Rosner: same time.
[00:27:07] Lisa Joy Rosner: I, I, I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah. Yeah, so well, and, and on that boldness, I also think, you know, you just, you you described it. I mean, our zeitgeist is still pretty gloomy and I think that as marketers, if we can market hope and optimism, you know, that's, you kind of have to fake it till you make it.
[00:27:25] Lisa Joy Rosner: I think if we change the. The narrative to being forward-looking and positive, it can be, you know, we can all just collectively repair and move to the future and make things better.
[00:27:41] Tom Butta: Yeah. I mean, look, you, you know, the word that we talked about before as it relates to kind of the brand. Consumer relationship is all about trust.
[00:27:48] Tom Butta: Mm-hmm. By the way, that's the same world word that we use as it relates to just personal, really interpersonal relationships. A hundred percent. Right. And, and I would say as it relates to leaders, right, because, you know, you've led very, very large teams and, and you've led change, and I, you know, I've, I've done that as well a few times, and I think what you want to receive from your leaders, Is, is a sense of confidence.
[00:28:16] Tom Butta: Absolutely. Right. And I, so I think that's, in this, that's, it's a slight variation on trust, but I think it's super important to achieve that. All right, so we're gonna close out here with some, some rapid strike questions. Okay. So, so first is iPhone or Android.
[00:28:32] Lisa Joy Rosner: iPhone a hundred percent. Um, and it goes back to what we've been talking about.
[00:28:37] Lisa Joy Rosner: Apple has built a brand based on trust. I feel that they will always protect my privacy. Every country I've been in, I've seen Apple talking about the trust that they, that and, and the security and that the safety, um, I find it very, very intuitive. So iPhone, although we are a mixed marriage, my husband is Android.
[00:28:58] Tom Butta: Yeah. Okay. There you go. And why is he Android? What's his decision? I
[00:29:04] Lisa Joy Rosner: think for him it's, it's, uh, he finds the Android more intuitive to use. I, I completely disagree, but I mean, you know, who knows? We're, we're probably, I mean, we're very different people,
[00:29:16] Tom Butta: so Right. Very different people who have come together and aligned on the things that matter.
[00:29:21] Tom Butta: Sounds like abs. Absolutely. And maybe this isn't one of them. Um, alright. What's the one? Okay, I'm gonna ask you. You've got hundreds of apps that you use a lot. What's the one app you can't live without?
[00:29:30] Lisa Joy Rosner: Well, you're really gonna laugh about this one or not. I have four children. Someone's always broken or sick, and there's this great app called Alto Pharmacy, and it's so easy and you just click, click, click, and within a few.
[00:29:47] Lisa Joy Rosner: Sometimes minutes or hours, the medications at your door is so easy to use. Their customer ethic, customer support ethic is incredible and it's, it's changed my life given the kind of life that I have with four, you know, busy kids who are active and always sick and injured.
[00:30:07] Tom Butta: Is there a, so you talked about maybe AI as the next traverse, virtual reality as the next trend.
[00:30:12] Tom Butta: Do you think that's a trend? You know, what is, what I absolutely do.
[00:30:15] Lisa Joy Rosner: If you were to look ahead, I do think it's a trend. I think that virtual reality, augmented reality, and just, and also the power of ai, in fact, it just shared us the LinkedIn posts this morning about, about AI and how it's changing writing.
[00:30:29] Lisa Joy Rosner: But I, I think that, that all of these, they're not that new, but. Continually innovating. Newer technologies are going to fundamentally change our experiences inside apps over the next two to five years.
[00:30:44] Tom Butta: Alright, great, Lisa, thank you. We've taken up a lot of your time today. Thank you. Thank you very much.
[00:30:49] Tom Butta: Thank you very much for your time and, uh, we hope you all enjoyed, enjoyed this particular podcast. Thank you. Well,
[00:30:54] Lisa Joy Rosner: Tom, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to Masters of Max, a mobile app experience podcast, brought to you by the team at airship. Find out more about how you can help your brand deliver better, more personalized app experiences@airship.com.
[00:31:13] Lisa Joy Rosner: If you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to subscribe and rate the show.